Gun Violence....what is the problem?

There have been many threads discussing the "gun Violence" problem in the US. They usually start out with facts based upon the FBI and the CDC, but eventually devolve into feelings and examples that people deem not the same.

I want to start this one, but with a different goal. I want to see if we can get to the root cause of the issue. To do this I'm going to use a method called the 5 Whys. It is used in many industries and organizations to help determine what the root cause of the problem is so it can be fixed and not try and fix a symptom of the problem. Fixing the root cause typically costs less than throwing money at symptoms. For those unfamiliar with this method here's a short video from Harvard Business Review to explain.

Ok, with that out of the way here's my attempt.

Problem: More people are committing gun violence...why?
1. They are bullied and can see no other option...why?
2. Because they don't feel they can talk to someone about the problem....why?
3. They didn't have parents involved in their lives....why?
4. Parents to busy working...why?
5. The desire for stuff....why?
6. Have been told that stuff determines their self worth...why?
7. Social media showing happy people with stuff all day long...why?

In this case I went to 7 why's instead of 5 why's, which is OK. Asking why 5 times is just the average it takes to get to the root cause of a problem. The key to root cause analysis is that a tool or a machine should never be the root cause of a problem. Machines have to have humans to operate them, clean them, and maintenance them so they are totally dependent on humans to operate. The "whys" may change based upon the incident, but the method is the same.

In our government I see tons of symptom fixing, but few people wanting to actually get to the root cause of a problem and fix it. Sometimes I think that's because of the cost involved, but if you total up the symptom fixes it would have cost less to fix the root cause. Sometimes (and I think this is the most often problem) the root cause that is reached is not advantageous to the person, party, or institution.....it becomes political.

What are your thoughts? What are your 5 whys?

 

There is quite a difference between pre-internet and post internet.
Cheap cell phones don't help either.

1st why, bullying is not what it used to be. Now you can be bullied by anyone on the internet. Cell phones catch people doing stupid or embarrassing acts, next thing you know it's posted on Facebook, or YouTube for the whole world too see. Once there it can be very hard too get rid of.
2nd why, again talk to the wrong person, and it is all over the internet.
3rd and 4th why, many kids come from single parent households, Mom or Dad has to work 2 jobs just to make ends meet. Nobody wants to tell their kids they couldn't afford to buy groceries.
5th why, it's a materialistic world. Many kids cannot afford the latest and greatest, and somehow there is a stigma attached to shopping at Walmart or Goodwill.
6th and 7th why, stuff doesn't make anyone happier, commercials are there too make people buy stuff.

I raised my kids like I was raised, you want it you earn it. My kids had chores that were required and this paid for their cell phones. Since they all had prepaid phones, it was easy to teach them the lesson of if you don't work you don't get paid.

 

The 5 why’s approach to finding root causes is an extremely flawed, biased fragile, methodology for drilling down to root causes for complex human behavior. It is depenent upon finding causal chains in collective human behavior. Analysis of the same phenomena by two investigators with different biases will not find consensus in the root of a causal chain. It’s a good means of crafting narrative causal chains for conspiracy theories.

 

Agreed, 100 percent, but we (public and politicians) are clearly not making attempts to use anything to find the actual cause of the problem. So I thought I would start off small and easy to use and understand. There are far more superior tools, but they are more difficult to explain quickly and most people will not watch a 30 minute or more video about a topic they don't care to learn.

If this can be a starting point for people to be exposed these kinds of tools....great.

 

It would just be another method that would devolve into greater or continuing entrenchment of opposing beliefs. So called empiricists can’t even agree on the salient variables that would be indicative of violence, much less, than get us closer to understanding why guns become employed in crime. When we can get closer to understanding the cultural phenomena of explaining why teens begin adopting dangereous fads such as swallowing detergent pads, we might begin to have the tools for understanding crime and violence in this or any country. Even the huge national interdesciplinary Studies conduced in the 90’s and by the CDC in 2013 failed to achieve concensus on any level to advise on policy.

 

All the 'Whys' can be easily summed up by the fact that each generation changes and the previous one always says, "What's the world coming to?".

The kids of today will grow up and say, "What's the world coming to?".

Don't forget what Darwin said, "It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change."

As society changes, if anyone believes the 2nd Amendment can remain static, they're not embracing change. Sometimes we like the change, sometimes we don't. It's very easy to give, it's very hard to take away. If you won't or don't embrace change, you won't survive.

Sometimes some changes are not good, but that's part and parcel of the process. Stop trying to tell your kids, support them in their choices.

 

So if I understand you correctly and please correct me if I'm wrong. Your saying.....kids will be kids and support what they do?

 

If they wanted to change job, you would support them even if they went from accountancy to say, retail.

If they want to undertake a massacre, you would ring the police.

You can can offer advice, only if they ask or want to hear it. Been there, done that; you want to find out by doing as opposed to being told not to do it.

 

Ok, I understand where your coming from I believe, but as a parent we are here to teach and advise our offspring. That is why they start unable to do anything and we as parents teach them right and wrong. At a certain age they will no longer listen well, but that's why you put the time in before they get to that point. If the parent is absent or simply has the TV teach their children, then the child is more likely to get lost in what is right and wrong.

I personally believe that many parents are not raising their children anymore. Sure they supply them food, shelter, and warmth, but not much in the way of instruction or love. They are not teaching them how the world really works, like what is expected of them, manners, or the value of friends, family, and people in general.

 

First point, the term "Gun Violence" is false as it implies or indicates Guns are causal to Violence.

History shows Violence did not originate with Guns, it existed long before Guns.

Criminal acts and Violence in general does not occur because Guns exist, it occurs because there are people that see Violence as a means to an end.

It would almost seem Gun Control advocates ignore the real reasons behind Violence in their rush to either restrict or ban fireams from law abiding citizens.

 

the problem is the NRA valueing gun rights more than the lives of our children

 

You tend to find they'll listen to someone. You might have said the same thing but they ignore you but they listen to, say, their auntie, family friend etc.. It's just the psychology of kids.

They're likely to ignore a parent if the parent offers advice without checking with them first if they want advice.

My youngest is 17, going on 40. My eldest is 19.

Both have supervised access to use my guns, unsupervised access to a .22 air rifle and both are not interested. I rarely use them as well, I only use them cos my mate is a clay pigeon fanatic.

 

The problem is Drug Dealers using minors to sell Illegal Drugs because they are not prosecuted as Adults, these are the ones killing innocent people.

 

LOL!!!!!

zero mass shootings have involved drug dealers

 

You can Turkey laugh all you like, most shootings and people killed are not mass shootings, they occur in Ghettos, Slums and are a by product of illegal Drug activity.

 

Indeed, there is why don't you kill yourself bullying right here on this forum. OF the chronically ill. Sick I know, but it is everywhere, and THAT is why children are killing each other. The hatreds are not lost on the INNOCENTS.

 

turkey laugh?

gobble gobble?

 

One of the problems is people over simplifying causation with agenda laden statements like the assertion you just made along with the projection of the values held by millions of NRA members that are the NRA, something you can’t possibly know other than the majority disagree with your agenda.

 

You know Ron, your opinion used to be something, but lately it isn't worth a plug nickle. I start a thread to try and start a discussion using a simple problem solving method and you don't even try. You go straight to your talking point of "NRA is bad". How about you contribute instead of being a robot and spewing what the people running your opinion want you to.

 

In order to protect our children totally, we'd have to give up all guns. And knives. And opposable thumbs.

What other rights should we give up to protect any members of society? Toss out the 4th to protect victims of child pornography? Toss out the 5th and 6th to make sure that even suspected criminals be removed from society just in case?

 

You must be one of those chronically ill, because you make no sense sometimes like now. I simply gave my opinion, and you spew hatred like the spittle from your drooling lips.

Children are killing each other, not because of firearms, but because of the vile rhetoric of those in the MSM and people like you.

 

Do you want links, to right wingers telling me to off myself, so that America can be MAGA? Both this forum, and another.

 

Right wingism could save mankind. SURE.

Just moar {see abuse and bullying, YOU are the bully abuser}. Says the right wing, which is the purpose of NO PC.

 

That may be, but you are painting me with that same brush...so when attacked I will defend myself. Verbally or physically, not everyone is the same... there is diversity even in the same ideology. I'm not one of those rabid people that wish harm on anyone I disagree with.

But I will vigorously defend myself and my family if need arises.