Read Mueller's indictment. You think you know more than the entire US counter intelligence divisions of the FBI and CIA and NSA or the republican DOJ? What a dumb dismissal.
Yes I believe the criminal indictments Meuller issued can be proven in court. Yes, I am particularly biased to the rule of law. It cuts thru the partisan bullshit quite nicely. Of course the corollary that your unsubstantiated disbelief confirms yours in spades. You might actually read the indictments, but then again willful ignorance IS necessary for such strong, intractable bias as yours.
It's not that the Democrats didn't hack into the DNC it's what was uncovered by them doing so. It showed us how the DNC rigged the election against Bernie, It exposed Debbie Wasserman Schultz as a Hillary incompetent and the hiring of a Pakistani Imran Awan as an aide who we later found out was in charge of computer security but was introduce to many Democrats who used Imran and his company for their laptop security. Much more was found from John Podesta's computer, Anthony Weiner's computer. I am sure none of this info would have come out if the Russians hadn't hacked.
People tend to assume Trump created or drives the Nativist/Populist movement in the US. In fact he is simply taking advantage of a very powerful, and growing, force in the US. It will be far more powerful long after he leaves office because of the key economic and social drivers which create it.
Actually, I have read the indictments which is why I am suspicious. I believe the first indictment because it is based largely on published accounts by Russian and American journalists. It was an open secret for years. (Check the footnotes of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Research_Agency) Mueller didn't have to investigate anything, just type up newspaper articles in the form of an indictment and reap the accolades from the left for his astonishing revelation of yesterday's news. But the GRU is a different matter. The people named in the indictment are military intelligence officers, professionals. I find it suspicious Mueller could know their names, let alone all the details of their activities. And Mueller claims to be able to trace bitcoin transactions back to the source of the mined Bitcoins. Is GRU that incompetent that it cannot launder bitcoin transactions? If the NSA and/or CIA have really penetrated GRU to the point of detailing the steps of the hacking, why would they reveal their capabilities just to give Mueller an indictment. Everybody already believes the Russians were involved. What is the point of revealing the penetration of GRU? If NSA has the records of all Bitcoin transactions ever made and can identify the participants in these transactions, is it wise to reveal this capability just so Mueller can grab a headline? I find the scenario dubious. All it does is motivate the bad guys to tighten up their game.
says the crowd that changed "grossly negligent" to "extremely careless" in order to keep hillary out of jail.
Now that is hilarious. You find it suspicious that all those billions of dollars in defense spending in military and civilian intelligence agencies is really just paying for a bunch of guys to clip newspaper articles. Who knew? I am totally not surprised you'd find it "dubious". Fact is this is reality and you can't handle the fact that the Russians actually did directly interfere in the US elections with a MILITARY CYBER ATTACK that sure as hell put their thumb on the scale for trump. Its a fact that the DNC emails massively contributed to the trumpian narrative and influenced voters. If it didn't then in essence the argument is that Americans are either too smart or too stupid to accept all that crap they read and hear on social media. Gee, let's ignore reality and human nature completely, to protect trump's ego and "legitimacy". Funny how he questioned Obama's legitimacy from day one without any evidence and now his is the one that is truly questionable with rather stark and detailed evidence. Ironic, wot?
True the radical racist right wing fascist fringe has been around for some time. Dissatisfaction and fear are easily instilled in targeted demographics. The nativist/populist bigots have been around is day one. I believe trump has empowered them and their megaphones are as loud and far reaching as anyone else's on the internet. And I also am of the opinion that the economic and social drivers of this partisan faction will demonstrate the bankruptcy of their ideology. IOW, protectionist economic policy in a global market will fail miserably and freedom and equal rights will win over the "poor me" white nationalist bullshit. Jus' sayin'.
OTOH, would I be incorrect to assume you believe the Meuller investigation to be the "fruit of the poison tree" as so many republicans on capitol hill are trying to sell? NIce that you excuse a Russian MILITARY ATTACK on your country because of what you learned from the fruits of that crime. Who knew patriotism is a flexible concept dependent on partisan twisted situational ethics?
Sure. Most of what the CIA knows is from open sources. The rest that isn't they don't tell anyone without the proper security clearance. Why is Mueller allowed to publish this stuff? Sure I can, but if it is so I doubt they would try to try the Russian intelligence officers. I can't think of a more feckless mission. I would go with too smart in the case of the Facebook ads. , As for the emails, I suggest they are smart enough to see what a corrupt and venal person the Democratic nominee was. Surely you agree she is. In what way is Trump's Presidency supposed to illegitimate?
Have him arrested and tried for espionage why doncha. Thta wasn't the mission, but I understand how it flew completely over the heads of trumpettes and their allies. You think Meuller was stupid enough to think that he'd ever get those GRU officers in a court of law? It was to set up what is coming. To prove to the American people and the world that Russia launched an aggressive MILITARY operation with the direct intent of creating division, confusion and chaos AND to hurt hillary AND to elect trump. No matter which way you want to attack the credibility of the indictments it doesn't matter. This isn't remotely Meuller's main course. Which they obtained from the Russian MILITARY ATTACK on america. So thanks for acknowledging that the russians did have a large effect on the election in trump's favor. Illegitmate because his election was in part attributable to the direct MILITARY intervention in the election process by Russia. IOW he didn't win "fair and square" (although i realize the irony of those words in context of a political campaign).
It proves nothing. It is a mere accusation. And the irony here is the fact that it is the Democrats "creating division, confusion and chaos ." What is his main course? (Is he a caterer?) If they did indeed hack the emails. The Facebook ads, not so much. How in the world does that affect the legitimacy of the election. Obama's legitimacy was called into question because there was doubt of his being native born. Foreign interference doesn't affect the legitimacy of the election. All the Constitutional requirements for the election of an eligible candidate were fulfilled.
Oh grow up. It is a detailed indictment based on hard evidence. But of course its all a deep state plot. Hold on to the bullshit because that is all you have. Cohen, et.al. we'll see how far up the chain he's able to prove in the coming months. Yeah because we all know that ads don't work. I agree all constitutional requirements were fulfilled. OTOH, the winner was assisted in crossing the finish line by a RUSSIAN MILITARY CYBER ATTACK on the United States of America. A targeted program designed to harm clinton and help trump. They were spectacularly successful. IOW, Trump became president in no small part with the active assistance of a foreign adversary of America. He and his campaign may have been innocent dupes and unwitting benefactors, but they sure as hell leveraged the Russians input into the campaign messaging. Which begs the question: Why lie so often and so much about russian contacts if your innocent? Embarrassment is hardly an excuse. What is that smell?
What hard evidence? Where did it come from? You are just taking the Deep State's word for it because it confirms your bias. Cohen colluded with the Russians? When? How? A few measly ads lost in the noise? And how does that all make him illegitimate? Your armpit?
It came from the American intelligence community, US cyber operations, the FBI, and the DOJ. And no I don't do what you do. I don't take imaginary organizations word for anything. But don't let your conspiracy laden world view get in the way of your own bias. Didn't say that. Merely that he was on deck. You cant be the stupidly dismissive, it must be deliberate that you fundamentally don't understand the nature of the MILITARY ATTACK from Russia. Something about free and fair elections comes to mind. direct aggressive foreign military interference with a definitive bias towards one candidate kinda delegitimizes the results. Even if they can't be reversed. YOu'd need the smell of a dog to identify my pit smell over your piles of steaming bullshit. D'oh, this is the internet after all.
And I surely don't trust those organizations. How many governments have CIA destabilized? They are experts at it. The NSA has developed a turnkey system for imposing totalitarian rule. And no I don't do what you do. I don't take imaginary organizations word for anything. But don't let your conspiracy laden world view get in the way of your own bias.[/quote] You first. The US is an oligarchy. Why do you believe the oligarchy's secret police? I know what the indictments say. The Internet Research Agency stuff is laughable. How so? If domestic hackers had accomplished the same penetration of the DNC servers, then would the results then have been legitimate? No bullshit, just some critical thinking. Something you are reluctant to do if the data confirms your bias.
Imaginary organizations? What utter nonsense. I trust them because of their proven track record, their commitment to protecting the United States, their patriotism, their professionalism, their incredibly competent cyber capabilities, their dedication to the rule of law as the foundation of the nation. And you trust Putin - A REAL CREATURE OF THE SECRET POLICE, and Trump who wants his very own. Couldn't be any more transparent, tovarisch. You'd have to read them to know what they actually say. The revelation of America's forensic and active measures cyber capabilities is regrettable. No doubt the detail revealed and the realization of HOW FAR INTO THE GRU American intelligence can reach, is no doubt causing some little consternation and rage in Moscow. As for IRC being laughable, you're right. The deliciously ironic hacking into their video surveillance system was a wonderful "justice served" moment. No because its still predicated on a number of CRIMES - you know that annoying thing called the friggin rule of law? When the crime is perpetrated by a hostile foreign power's military, that is a friggin ACT OF WAR. Gee your churlish projection wounds me to the quick. OTOH, its does serve, like all your superficial fallacious conspiracy bullshit, to demonstrate the level of your critical thinking or lack thereof. Only entrenched confirmation bias and/or agenda driving can possibly explain it, because its not lack of intelligence.
Let's take a look at that track record. Here are the top 25 crimes of the CIA: https://hubpages.com/politics/Top-25-Crimes-of-the-CIA And the NSA spies on American citizens then lies about it. https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying So much for the rule of law. I don't trust Putin, either. Not regrettable. Stupid and pointless. I imagine it is causing laughter. So Germany would be justified to go to war with us because we bugged Merkel? Don't be silly. Only your total brainwashing could blind you to the problems with the indictment.
I guess it doesn't bother you at all that Hillary tried to hide 30,000 e-mails ( the US government seemed not to be able to find them) . Donald Trump knowing justice was stonewalling jokingly said " Hey Russia how about finding Hillary's 30,000 e-mails". The e-mails mysteriously showed up the next day. Did it bother you that Bill Clinton met with Loretta Lynch on the Tarmac in Phoenix? Does it not bother that Hillary Clinton and James Comey both had classified material on their personal computers and her trusted aide Huma Aberdeen had thousands of classified material on her husbands computer Anthony Weiner. I find it hard to believe a FBI that had so much corruption at the top and little has been done about it. Collusion is not a crime so what is Mueller investigating concerning Trump? Where is patriotism concerned with Flynn, Manaford, or any other indictments of Americans?
Yeah I guess you are too young to remember the Cold War. As for rule of law, you'll note that the nsa spying on Americans was THOROUGHLY investigated and all kinds of additional checks and balances were implemented. Seems rule of law works. Gold star there boy. regrettable. AS for stupid and pointless, I leave that to you. Yeah, they are laughing at the fact that US intelligence can reach so far in. That sure is some imagination you got there. But I understand the role of imagination in creating delusions of reality. Strawman bullshit not even remotely comparable, but of course that is all ya got. STEALING is a crime silly. Making definitive judgmental declarations without any substance is a habit of yours. nice projection tho.[/quote][/QUOTE]
Whataboutery abounds. Are you seriously trying to say that a RUSSIAN MILITARY ATTACK on the united states is some how to be excused because of hillary's emails? How long was she under Congressional and federal criminal investigation? Seems you are a more informed investigator and prosecutor than any of those people because for all their bluster and bullshit they came up wth nothing. If only YOU were on that job. Hillary is LONG GONE. Get over it. Focus on the now and the fact on the day your dear leader said "Russia I hope you are listening" was the very same day that the Russian military launched its attack. Get your friggin patriotic priorities in order. Playing kiss arse with Putin cannot be justified.
