Did anybody change their mind today?

False equivalency. You think America and Russia have the same motivations for their interventions? Might want to read a friggin history book. If you are a marine, perhaps you have had direct experience.

As for needing Russia'a help in Syria, that is like saying you need Germany's help to free Italy in ww2.

 

The problem is that there is no information here. No matter what trump does, you will generate a convoluted excuse for that action. The question I was asking was if anyone had enough repressed patriotism to throw away that emotional desire after that performance.

 

All of this requires wildly optimistic hopes and dreams. The desperate hope is that he has a secret master plan. He has never had a secret master plan, he just blurts out whatever retarded thought pops into his head. Name one time he has ever had a secret master plan? One that is verifiable.

Ignoring the insane conspiracy theories involved here, this isn't about the results of the election. It's about the fact that russia made a deep and concerted effort to interfere with our electoral process.

 

Interesting thread.

We've periodically seen those "is there anything donald could do that would make you stop supporting him" type threads.

And here we have one that is in that territory, with the president kowtowing to a dictator, blaming the US, apologizing for the US, stating on the the worldwide stage that he believes the KGB agent over the consensus of our own law enforcement community.

For what? Russian is a third rate economic power with no significant trade with us, with a tyrannical government that is the pariah of Europe.

It really is unbelievable and mind boggling. I can't even imagine the reaction from the right had Obama done this.

But while it change any minds from his base of supposedly conservative supporters? It doesn't look like it matters at all.

RW propaganda has a lot to do with it. But there also seems to be an element of belief over reason and fact. There seems to be a large segment of the population that are believers, and will hold on to their beliefs regardless of fact and reason to the contrary.

 

LOL! Ahhh, so you are one of "those".....

 

Yes, I'm one of those realists.

 

Well, listen, if hitler, ghandi, obama, trump, and coleslaw are all the same thing to you, then all I can say is don't vote, don't have kids, and enjoy your life.

 

I am not shocked. I knew the Resistance would play this game.

Let me elucidate.

Game 1. This is an indictment. It is not a concluded trial.
When killers are captured and charged, the media constantly calls them alleged killers. But with Trump they convict first and never get around to asking journalist questions.

Game 2. This is about elections. The media is still angry they misled the public and told them Hillary was winning.

Game 3. I do not want to explain the electoral college but shut up about how close it was. It does not matter at all. She still lost the electoral vote. That vote is the only vote that makes a difference.

 

Russian collusion is the only conspiracy theory. $20M+ later and still no evidence. Mueller tried to get the word Russia into an indictment ,,, couldn't satisfy a petition for discovery --- because indicted the trolls with no evidence.

 

Did you have something relevant to my post and the issue in the thread?

 

Cant fix stupid... Those that committed to Trump have done so until the bitter end. In fact, who wants them, they should move to the country to the south, TEXAS !

 

What makes you think there is no evidence?

 

No, collusion between members of the trump campaign and Russia is not a conspiracy theory, it is an investigative theory, given prominence because the investigators knew AT THE TIME that Trump et. al. were lying to the American public about their interactions with Russians.

You'll note that the meuller investigation has delivered definitive proof of RUSSIAN hacking. The RUSSIAN MILITARY HACKING.

But I suppose it is entirely possible that given trump's "sophistication" that he and his campaigners were nothing more than innocent patsies who happened to materially benefit from Russian activities. Yep just innocent dupes who, for reasons that escape most people with more than a single digit IQ, they repeatedly lied about. Nope nothing to see there.

 

As an ally against globalism, ya. Germany is as much a pusher of it as we not long ago were.

 

And why is globalism the biggest thing to fight against?

 

Globalism is collectivism.

 

lol, I see

 

I would worry more about authoritarianism.

 

You don't know? What is that supposed to mean? Trump said it! He said publicly that he believes Putin more than his own intelligence agencies, more than his own staff that he appointed. And keep in mind that these have shown him evidence, proof, documents.... Putin just.... said it "very strongly". And even if they were liars... they are our liars. A real President settle this kind of things in private. Under closed doors. Never ever ever... in front of our foe.

My God, man! I'm very proud of our armed forces. But what kind of talk is this from a United States Marine?

What good is getting along with Putin if he can't get along with his own staff, his own military, his own Intelligence Services?

 

Tump is... you mmm.... mmm... mmy friend!

 

So is fascism and nationalism. You miss that in polysci?

col·lec·tiv·ism
kəˈlektəˌvizəm/
noun

1. the practice or principle of giving a group priority over each individual in it.
   • the theory and practice of the ownership of land and the means of production by the people or the state.

 

i vote : Yes, I approve of him now

 

I for once absolutely disagree with Trump on Russia, always have, and for the life of me i don't understand his weird adoration with the sh&thole country and its leader. I will give you this much.

Does it mean i buy this utterly idiotic liberal/MSM collusion/treason conspiracy garbage? Absolutely not.

Does it mean that I will now support pro-open border, anti-American, anti Christian anti-Israel, Mexico/Islam loving, free speech suppressing, PC shoving down our throats socialist idiots that the Dem party is today? You have to be fing kidding me.

 

Until humans develope a hive mind and lose individuality, collectivism can only work via authoritarianism. I am worrying about it.

 

Given the choice between nationalism and individualism, I would choose individualism. But that would require me to succeed from the US- a decidedly failed proposition (a limit on realistic choice). The debate on merits and feasibility of anarchism would be better suited for a different thread.

Nationalism based on the US Constitution allows for relative individualism (localized sovereignty) at the state and county level, giving us the greatest realistic degree of autonomy and (nearer) self government, especially in juxtoposition with global collectivism and effective one-world centralized government.

You should really consider local and current context in conjunction with definitions.

Also, fascism =\= nationalism, if thats what you were infering.