The Bible

This is nonsense.

Situational ethics has to do with the question immediately at hand. Christians face the issues of immediate circumstances as much as anyone else.

The idea that atheists are somehow impaired from considering the full range of human existence is clearly ridiculous.

 

Another couple of months to 80 I've seen a lot, learnt a lot. I've seen religious organisations beginning to understand that the Bible needs to be understood under the time and cultures it was written. Archaeology has helped us to understand the Bible - both what is truth and what is error. You've obviously studied the OT and your posts are interesting - though I often disagree with you. It interests me as much of the Pentateuch is simply taken from other civilisations. As is much of Jewish ritual. This is where I get frustrated with Christians who really have no idea of what the Bible says, yet spout 'words of wisdom' and explanations pumped into them. Anyway, it's bedtime - after today's highlights of the English Premier Football League.

 

..., Agree. And so many people start from the assumption that the Bible is THE Book, rather than A book. This sounds simplistic , but many/most people forget to think about this and get straight on to what ‘holy ‘ words are in the book.

 

But-but-but you cannot just invent the existence of a god because it satisfies the need for meaning, purpose etc. There are loads of positives to ‘believing’ , but that does not mean that what you believe is the truth. We’d all love a world where Santa actually exists, but, sadly, he doesn’t. It is a very sad outlook to conclude that life only has meaning or purpose if there is a god out there.

 

What frustrates me about their 'meaning to life' is that where Christians and atheists work together in say, charity work - providing food for the homeless, helping the aged etc. - it's supposedly only the Christians who benefit from a 'meaning to life'. It means nothing to, and for, the atheist. It's the same throughout life.

 

There is very little useful information in the Bible. The most useful passage is in Proverbs 1:10-19. The books of Ecclesiastes , Wisdom, and Sirach also contain some good universal information. The rest is pretty much useless.

 

That depends on what you are looking for. It certainly confirms some of Palestine's history when compared with the Bible using Archaeology, Though it doesn't always confirm Bible reasons for events. (The walls of Jericho fell, but not why).
My own use is to follow paths leading to more ancient beliefs.
The Year of Jubilee in the Bible is not necessarily a Biblical innovation. It could easily be adapted from the Edict of Ammisaduqa earlier.
Jewish Festivals lead us back to earlier festivals celebrating the same events.
Some Christian sects - on Easter Sunday - gather to declare 'He is Risen'. In many ancient beliefs the ruler of Spring and Summer would descend into the underworld in Autumn. On a specific day in Spring he would rise up, and the people would gather to welcome him back with the same words 'He is Risen'. Obviously different peoples had different adaptations on the same theme.

It's a good pathway to follow in the sense that most of the ancient Hebrew rules and regulations are not unique but lead farther back in time. .

 

Why would intelligent educated people want to follow silly ancient Middle Eastern Jewish rules about anything today? As I mentioned there is a little bit of useful advice but the rules suck big time.

 

Well, as an educated intelligent person I certainly wouldn't eat any shellfish or fish without scales taken from the river Ganges and other rivers in the Middle East knowing, and having seen, what is done on the banks and seashores in some places.
But I agree with you that most of the practices are no longer applicable - unless you're a practising Jew of course.

 

'Moral STANDARDS' = Absolute morality

Atheism has no basis for absolute morality, only relative. This is an age old philosophical concept.

My points here were ignored, in favor of the more tittilating tactic of ad hom and straw men.

No rebuttal of this? Just eye rolling and righteousness indignation?

You distort the point, to try to twist it into an attack. It is a philosophical consequence of belief. No God, no Absolute morality. If there is a God, perhaps there are moral standards, imbedded by this God.

Are you trying to say that you believe in Absolute morality, and meaning, and purpose for the existence of the universe?

I don't wish to drift too much in this thread. If a debate over Natural Law and moral absolutes is desired, that can take place in another thread.

http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/morality-absolute-or-relative.441782/

..same for arguing the existence of God. That is not the topic of this thread.

 

These replies are from another thread, but i thought they are more topical here.

I have a lot more to say about this, relating to epistemology and the quest for Truth, that i hope to address later.

The bolded above reveals a fundamental difference in differentiating between truth and lies, facts and opinions, or empiricism from belief.

So.. if you were deciding whether something was true, or not, how would you go about it?

1. Avoid the source, and immerse yourself in biased, bigoted echo chambers of propaganda and Indoctrination.
2. Study the source with an open mind, using reason and hermeneutics to deduce its meaning and intent?

It depends on the goal. Are you seeking Truth and understanding, or affirming your indoctrinated biases?

 

What god? The one you believe in, for whom there is no evidence? Just like every other god. There is no absolute morality. You choose your morality when you chose your god.

 

I haven't avoided any source. I was preaching the gospel probably before you were toddling around. I've spent years studying the Bible and found it wanting. I've studied the source with an open mind. That's why I asked you to explain the Nativity story where Jesus is in Nazareth and Egypt at the same time. Why Luke and Matthew have different stories. Why one gospel has a Passover feast before the crucifixion and another a friendship meal. And while we're at it why did Paul contradict Lukes account of his actions and movements after his conversion. Acts and Galatians. Why does Hosea call Jesus 'Israel' in 11:1. And why does Jesus not fulfil the rest of the chapter

You're right in one thing. Studying with an open mind. Something most Christians are unable to do. If they did Christmas would have a different meaning.

 

Yes, that is a common belief, and is increasing as the Indoctrination of atheistic naturalism expands.

Objectively, there either IS a God, or there is not. And based on THAT objective reality, there is either Absolute morality, or it is all relative.

You believe in the 'No God, No Absolute morality' worldview. Others do not share your beliefs.

This thread is about the Bible, which carries with it an implied belief in God.. at least for those who esteem the bible as a Divine Guidebook. But nowhere do any of the books of the bible argue for the existence of God. They reveal Him, or explain the nature of man and the universe, but it is not a proof text for God's existence. Atheists are seldom mentioned in the bible.

 

..been using fallacies and ad hom for years, too?

Arguments of authority, poisoning the well, and assertion are fine in pissing contests, but are inappropriate in a rational, Intellectual discussion.

..but these forums do not encourage rational, intelligent discussion, but pissing contests, so my expectations are very low..

..funny that you play the 'old, wise, man!' card, when you have yet to demonstrate wisdom or intelligence.

That is something that you display, not declare..

And your ad hom baiting and assumptions about me are unfounded. I rely on facts, reason, and Truth to provide impetus for my arguments, not fallacies.

Claiming age, education, race, gender, or any artificial, temporal quality is a fallacy for those who have no facts, arguments, or reasoning.

I don't know why i keep repeating this to you. You should be old enough to know this, by now.

 

.been using fallacies and ad hom for years, too?

Then answer my questions to you. You keep ignoring them. as does another Christian on here. All you do is try to denigrate me. But I'm not stupid enough to fall for it. Your knowledge of the Bible has yet to be proved. Your understanding of the Bible has yet to be proved. Your Christian indoctrination is complete.

You don't rely on facts.
1. There is no evidence of God. Fact.
2. You rely on the Bible which has been proven in error, contradictions etc. Fact.
3. Truth. What is truth. Your truth? Islams truth? Buddhists truth? There is no universal religious truth. Fact.
4. There is no intelligent discussion from you. Just biased Christian doctrine. Fact.

It's all in your mind.

 

The Bible does not reveal God. It reveals man's idea of a god.

 

Where does your absolute morality stand on something like, for instance, the murder of women and children and the taking of young girls as sex slaves?

 

No point in lashing out at me, for your own fallacies.

Seldom do you even address my points, but go off with anti-christian talking points and transference.

..probably little value in continuing this 'discussion'.. you'll just continue with personal shots, distortions, and the false Narrative.

But you are wrong. There is Knowledge in this universe that you do not know. Nitpicking my feeble words will not get you closer to it.

 

It is my observation, that man justifies his inhumanity to man in many ways. That does not invalidate the inner sense of morality, or injustice, and the sense of 'moral wrong!' that you infer only corroborates that observation.

 

You believe in absolute morality, you also believe in the Bible. So what does your absolute morality say about the slaughter of women and children and the takingnof young girls as sex slaves?

 

Since you want to declare my beliefs, it is only fair for me to return the favor..

You believe in relative morality, so how can you condemn the 'the slaughter of women and children and the taking of young girls as sex slaves?'

Me personally? I believe in the Enlightenment principles (rooted in the bible), of equality of man, and inherent rights to life, liberty, and property. So neither slavery or exploitation is part of my worldview.

You believe in atheistic naturalism, with evolved elitism and govt granted 'rights'. I presume you would support, idealistically, 'thinning the herd', social engineering, elitist control and micromanagement of every social avenue, and relegating value on people based on their usefulness to society..

Am i close?

 

No, I believe in absolute morality derived from the non-aggression principle. Killing women and children and taking anyone as a sex slave violates that.

So you are completely wrong.

Now it’s time for you to answer the question I asked.

 

Fallacies? Then show me your God.

 

Well, I'm certainly not getting answers to Biblical questions from you.