"Raising Children Without the Concept of Sin"

Gather whatever you wish. I thought we were posting funny quips.

 

The astuteness of Wm Buckley jr appears to be lost on theists!

 

My children were raised without the concept of sin. They are capable of self discipline and distinguishing between right and wrong based on the effect their actions have on the world and people around them.

I never hit them
I never made them sit in the corner
honestly they were never really very naughty but when they did do something wrong I would explain why it was wrong.... in some ways this is much more work than just hitting them and telling them not to do it again or time out etc.

 

How does that work? Is not 'sin', just a human judgment of 'wrong'?

Obviously, some kind of moralizing was taking place, to 'distinguish between right and wrong'. Why fault those who use the label, 'sin?'

 

The subtlety of his humor, combined with his faith in God, seems bewildering to atheists, who think all theists are deluded fools...

Why do you have to include a snarky, demeaning comment, in your every reply to me? Unbridled hatred for your ideological enemies?

We should have a great fewer disputes in the world if words were taken for what they are, the signs of our ideas only, and not for things themselves. ~John Locke

 

When we create laws in the secular world we apply a punishment involved in the breaking of that law. This in concept isn't any different than a religious approach. You break a "law" there is a punishment involved, whether physical or metaphysical. Both secular and religious teach that there are rules and to break the rules results in a punishment.

The punishment is meant to deter unlawful/sinful behavior. For some the deterrent works, for others not so much. Both systems in theory also believe in a "forgiveness". Either in a religious sense or served your time in prison and have atoned to society.

 

While Buckley was a man of faith he was NEVER a fundamentalist.

William F. Buckley, Jr. Quote
“Marijuana never kicks down your door in the middle of the night. Marijuana never locks up sick and dying people, does not suppress medical research, does not peek in bedroom windows. Even if one takes every reefer madness allegation of the prohibitionists at face value, marijuana prohibition has done far more harm to far more people than marijuana ever could.”

 

Who said he was? I only quoted one of his witticisms, and made no appeal to his beliefs...

 

Did you forget what you actually wrote about him just 40 minutes ago?

 

After you implied he was a hostile, anti-theist skeptic.

What is the point of this? Just a constant barrage of shots at me, personally?

 

I did nothing of the sort but your constant mischaracterizations of what I actually post results in self inflicted corrections that you take personally.

However that is your problem, not mine.

All that is needed is to accept legitimate criticism gracefully, learn from it and move on just like I did in post #155 above and these other examples.

http://politicalforum.com/index.php...-concept-of-sin.552049/page-8#post-1070338279

http://politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/how-to-end-the-shutdown.549535/page-5#post-1070142473

http://politicalforum.com/index.php...said-to-mick-mulvaney.549129/#post-1070100402

 

Back to the topic:

IMO, it is impossible to raise children without some kind of moralizing directives.

'Don't hit your sister!'
'Stop throwing your food.'
'Let the baby play with that toy.. share with him..'
'No!'

There is a constant stream of moralizing values directed at children, and to pretend we don't do it is absurd. Call bad behavior, 'sin!', if you want. Call it 'bad!' But a moral judgment is made, and moral values are being instilled, even when the little brats seem to ignore you.

Regardless of the philosophy of negative reinforcement, and the inclusion or exclusion of corporeal punishment, some kind of correcting influence is made, and moral values are affirmed.

 

I was in 2nd/3rd grade. I ate a bologna sandwich on a Friday during lent. It was an accident. I had my stomach all in knots all day, worrying about how to tell my parents I was going to hell. At 52, that memory has never left me.

 

Do you believe this was from a real moral value, or an indoctrination? Is there a difference?

 

Was that a self portrait or just your concept of what Jesus does when he hears your prayers?

 

Amazing how effective instilling negative theist guilt can be in children.

 

It was in the link you gave.. i thought you would remember it..

 

Children as young as 3 months old show a preference for pro-social behavior. Raising them to be empathetic and cooperative is more of a guiding exercise, like teaching them to walk. The instincts are there; they just need to be refined. Like learning to walk.

 

Not sure I understand the question. Do you believe there are non Catholics who think eating a bologna sandwich on the wrong date will get them sent to hell?

 

Firstly I didn't fault those who use the label sin, secondly it's usually the other way around, deeply religious people believe they need the concept of sin to prevent their children from "straying" in the wrong direction and fault those who don't.

The concept was developed by Dr Thomas Gordon, I believe he called it Parent effectiveness training, it sounds rigid but essentially it is about communication, relationship building, compassion with others, emotional intelligence and excepting that you are human, make mistakes and are sometimes wrong.

http://www.gordontraining.com/parent-programs/parent-effectiveness-training-p-e-t/

A simple example, don't take or break something that doesn't belong to you, because how would you feel if someone took your ......

I didn't follow his "steps" as much as just do my best to follow his principles,

I will share this story, my sister is deeply religious and on a visit she was astounded that my 3 and 5 year old would ask me "mummy can I please have a lolly, I would say "yes you can have two" and my kids would never take more than two (even when I'm not checking, which I rarely did) It was trust not sin that created the environment for obedience.

 

I'd say the sin there was believing God would send anyone to Hell for an innocent mistake.

 

Is 'morality', a Real Thing, or is it a human construct? That belief provides the basis for all other conclusions.

 

Great post!

Yup, physically abusing children means one has failed as a parent....out of either stupidity or ignorance or sheer laziness..