This Cop Is Getting $2,500 a Month Because Killing an Unarmed Man in a Hotel Hallway Gave Him PTSD

In other words, untrained civilians must remain perfectly calm and obedient at all times while officers are allowed to make decisions based on nothing but pure fear.

Also implied within your double-standard is the belief that police lives are automatically more important or valuable than the lives of everyone else.

Who cares if some innocent civilian gets killed as long as the sacred police officers are safe, right?

 

I agree with that, cops used to be braver (many still are), now many seem to shoot first, ask questions later - and why not if people like this get away with it

the determination of threat is what the cop thinks is a threat, doesn't matter if it's imaginary sadly

 

Simply imagine, that instead of a cop doing this shooting, it was done by a private security guard who etched "you're f*cked" on his service weapon...

 

exactly, a peeping tom noticed he had a gun and called the police

 

There is no double standard. The girl follow directions, the guy didn't. Let's see you do their job.

 

Sure, I'll cop to that.

No, killing somebody due to a "misinterpretation of reality" is typically called manslaughter.

Well, to begin, you read the exact opposite of what I said. "Wouldn't" and "would" are, I admit, unfortunately very similar, but they are different words.

But guess what? I do believe that! Abolish the ****ing police.

Depends on how you're using the term. If it is taken to mean: "This is the way things should have gone down," no, I don't think what happened here was defensible. This entire situation, the fact that a man so jumpy has his gun trained on an unarmed man, is a terrible indictment on our entire society.

But I don't think this jumpy cop should be executed on the basis of what I've seen here. First, because I'm against the death penalty in general. Second, because the evidence suggests to me that he didn't kill the man for kicks, but because he thought he was reaching. Finally, I strongly disagree with the leftist tendency to personalize systemic problems in ambiguous situations.

Barbie cop? **** that guy. This guy? I don't know. Maybe **** this guy, but while I'm unclear on the gravity of his own moral failings here, I'm perfectly clear on the systemic failings that lead to this situation.

 

Ending the disastrous war on drugs would be the best and most effective way to remedy this problem.

 

I 100% agree this is a huge part of the problem

 

Yes, there is a double-standard.

You hold untrained civilians to a higher standard than trained police officers.

You think civilians have to remain calm and rational at all times while police officers are allowed to make decisions based purely on fear.

Somehow, you've managed to get the truth completely backwards.

Not that it matters, but I did do their job in one of the world's most dangerous places.

 

The 'untrained' girl had no problem following directions. Do stupid things, expect stupid prizes.

 

The girl also wasn’t playing a game of Simon Says, they could have asked the man to lay down, interlace his fingers behind his head and apprehended him but instead they required him to crawl to them while jumping on one leg basically.

Unfortunately events like this by this pos officer give real officers a bad name.
And the his defenders come out and cause even more damage.

 

I’m sure you missed the different levels of complexity between the two incidents.

 

Typically but not always.

I'd be fine with abolishing the war on drugs. There are legitimate functions for police to perform. Unfortunately, the functions they tend to concentrate on now are the ones involving the oppression and exploitation of the lower and middle classes.

Just because he thought the guy was reaching doesn't make it not murder. A killing can be considered a murder if the killer demonstrates a callous disregard for human life.

And I don't recall arguing for the death penalty, but rather a conviction for second degree murder.

If this had been a private security guard instead of a cop, nobody would even think twice about calling this a murder. It's the magical powers of his badge and title that cause people to view things differently.

 

Yes, the girl managed to avoid being murdered by the incompetent and callous police officers. So what?

In other words, police can kill you for basically any reason and get away with it.

You're obviously not a big fan of American values.

 

the girls direction were much easier to follow and even she was scared to death, he only got worse for him

he was having fun playing with his catch, maybe he had a bad day who knows, but obviously after it was over even he knew he took a innocent life for no reason it seems or he would not be suffering from PTSD

I am wondering if it was narcissist ruins his image and can't take it anymore, gives him ptsd

 

That would be a great step towards the ideal goal: Abolishing the police.

If you have a gun trained on somebody, and interpret a movement as reaching, you're just gonna shoot. Now, it can be argued that this movement shouldn't have been interpreted as reaching, I can agree with that, but won't castigate a man or decry the fact that he has been diagnosed with PTSD based on that fact.

No, other people have. Think Ted was one of them.

I would probably be inclined to view the scenario more favorably if it was a private security guard, because I think that most (most!) private security communities don't have the same toxic culture American police communities do.

 

the guy was earlier laying on the floor face down with hands in front of himself, that was when you keep the gun on him and have another cuff him, so simple

if they would of treated him like they did her, we would not even be talking about it, I will assume sense he had a mental breakdown over it, even he knows it was preventable

as for abolishing the police, no way, that is not the end goal, they are also there when we need them

 

Glad we agree. But that's going to be hard to achieve if you're out there defending a police officer who killed an innocent civilian for no legitimate reason.

That doesn't mean it's not murder.

I'm sure lots of murderers suffer from PTSD after the fact.

Well, I agree with him, but my main point of contention has been oiver the second degree murder charge. According to a true interpretation of the spirit and the letter of the law, this was a second degree murder.

Right, but if the security guard had etched "you're f*cked" on his service rifle, then it would be safe for you to conclude that such toxicity was present.

 

I can agree with everything you've said here.

Well, it is for me.

 

I think the exact opposite, and that's my entire thrust in this thread. People need to understand that American policing is institutionally ****ed, but that we're not saying that police officers are monsters, even those who act poorly in ambiguous situations and do something terrible. Some of those people surely are monsters, and it's unfortunate that my leaning on the side of protecting non-monsters allows some monsters to slip through the cracks.

I am absolutely in favor of condemning police officers, strongly, in situations where there simply isn't such ambiguity.

I come from a really strange political background. I'm far-left adjacent, but live and work among nearly 100% right-leaning people, and identify them as part of the cultural group that I am irreversibly part of. As a result, I'm not like some New York leftists (who I tend to like) who simply think that American progress will come from ignoring the concerns of "my people." I want to present leftist messaging in some way that's more amenable to these people, because I believe they can be won.

The only way that's true is if you're intentionally trying to get someone to reach, and that is the purpose for the interaction. I don't think that's what was happening here.

Yeah, I'm sure some do. Intuitively I would think that suffering PTSD indicates regret over an action. Intuitively, I think this cop regrets this even every day of his life.

I would suspect it, yes.

 

So... guilty even after proven innocent?

Interesting argument.

 

You wouldn't have done anything, because you arent a police officer on the street every day dealing with these people. It's super easy to Monday morning quarterback, and say what you wouldn't have done... but you will never find yourself in that situation and that's why you wouldn't do anything.

 

So even though we've both been members of this forum for nine years, you still haven't managed to ascertain the fact that I'm a marine veteran with years of combat training and deployments.

 

That's not a cop.

I was Army. I don't think it's anywhere relevant. You don't go face to face with enemies on the battlefield before determining if they are a threat. On the field of battle, things also aren't as cut and tried as you make them out to be. Many civilians are accidentally killed as they are incorrectly percieved as threats.

Your expectations are unreasonable, which is surprising considering your experiences.

 

The counterinsurgency operations I did in Iraq basically amounted to policing a city. The biggest difference is that I was in far more danger than the average cop.

My expectations are based on experience and observation inside a combat zone. I wasn't allowed to shoot anyone unless I positively identified a weapon first. But I wasn't exposed to unacceptable levels of risk as a result. There is no reason why police officers cannot abide by the same standards that I was expected to abide by inside an actual warzone.