I fully believe President Trump intended to force Ukraine to find dirt on Biden for military aid.

I've always believed that was the intent of President Trump. It fits well with his personality and the way he operates.

At the same time...

I do NOT believe President Trump ever clearly and definitely told the Ukrainians that. Nor do I believe it will ever be proven that was his intent.
Why?
Two big reasons:
1) Some have claimed that Trump operates like a mob boss. Anyone who has ever studied crime bosses or even seen realistic movies on the subject know that mob bosses virtually never give orders clearly and openly. They don't say stuff like "I want Mario Gotti whacked". Instead they say things like "We have a problem. We need to have the problem taken care of". Both are references to murder but in real life a mob boss doesn't name the target, who is to do the deed, by what means or where. It is all covered in vagueness and ambiguities. Which is one reason I don't think there will ever be proof that President Trump wanted the Ukrainians to dig up something on Joe Biden in exchange for the military aid.

2) Trump friend Geraldo Rivera explained something similar the other night. He said that Donald Trump almost never speaks in a clear, cut and dried manner He said most of Donald Trumps vocalizations are more like "stream of consciousness" or "inner monologues" that defy being classified as clear orders or expressions of his will. It is probably a habit he got into in his career to avoid allowing him to be pinned down from making clear commitments and binding agreements.

 

My impression as well.

 

" I fully believe President Trump intended to force Ukraine to find dirt on Biden for military aid "

Most Americans believe Trump should be impeached on Bribery after the public testimony

........... thanks to the whistleblower ................ another Trump Fail

 

Interesting.

You know he's guilty...

So you favor Impeachment then...

 

Force is the wrong term since Ukraine got their money without investigating anything. Trump wanted (1) To get Ukraine to execute their part of the 1999 Treaty we have with them to root out corruption, particularly since Biden bragged about his corrupt actions; and (2) Pursuant to the same treaty, solicit help in finding out just how it came to be that Ukraine meddled in the 2016 election. But you're right. Trump is too smart to get caught clearly documenting any such request.

 

There was no crime. We don't just hand out cash without getting something in return ,,, well, unless WE'RE Barack Obama , who got nothing for the pallet of greenbacks he sent to Iran.

 

Feelings don't count

 

Does this mean he should not be impeached?

Quite frankly someone who is operating on a “stream do consciousness” is NOT fit to be in charge of a market stall let alone a nuclear arsenal

 

No. at this point I'm against impeachment regardless of what they prove. Too damaging to the U.S. Too damaging to the presidency in the future.

 

Personally I think that Trump didn't so much want dirt on Biden as much as he wanted to clear his own name from the whole Russian collusion conspiracy. And somewhere along the line Burisma was mentioned as having a possible link to the 2016 election interferences.

Remember, he's got an ego the size of the world. What others think of him is very much a part of his mind set. It's why he attempted to meet part way on gun control and when the Dems still crapped all over him AND the Repubs started crapping on him for it he went back to his previous stance. He saw no one willing to like him on the Dem side so he went back to the ones that he knew liked him. Not really all that uncommon among people actually. Maybe if the Dems were at least OCCASIONALLY willing to give him positive credit on things where he actually deserves it he'd be more willing to consider their ideas and push for them. But they couldn't even give him credit for killing Al Bagdadi or whatever his name was. Instead they tried to portray him as a "scholar that was brave until the end". There's just too much hatred in Dems right now for them to think about anything other than getting rid of him though. Not to mention that they are so invested in the "orange man bad" scenario that they really don't have a way out without seriously taking a set back from all the people that they have duped. Trump isn't all that bad. He's not great, but he's certainly not "Hitler" or anything even slightly close to it.

Another thing to consider is that with his ego I doubt very seriously that he considered Biden worth investing the effort into. He'd be quite happy to simply smear him without any dirt from Ukraine.

 

So you agree ............. Trump is above the Law

 

Too damaging. Frankly, I don't see how this is more damaging than giving a president a pass on his oath of office. Is it your contention that no matter how egregious the crime, the president is above the law? I consider it is damaging to our national conscience and character to set a standard of behavior so low for national office, that anything goes. Bribery is clearly identified as a High Crime in the Constitution. If Americans are too weak to uphold the Constitution and the law, they don't deserve a republic. Article I, section 3, paragraph 5 of the Constitution of the United States of America clearly assigns the process of impeachment to the House of Representatives thereby defining a duty Congress is sworn to uphold.

Our reputation has been irreparably damaged when your friends and allies can no longer rely on the United States to set the bar for ethical and moral behavior. The abandonment of the Kurds to a corrupt power (Turkey) has shaken the faith in America's steadfastness to honor its commitments and promises. Make no mistake, the international community are watching to see if America can be trusted in matters of oaths and assertions. The evidence of bribery is compelling. We have no choice but to go forward.

 

Impeaching Dirty Donald is not nearly as damaging as keeping him.He has done more damage to America in less that 3 years than any prior president in my lifetime.He has alienated many of our previously closest allies as he kissed up to every two bit dictator in the world like Putin Duerte,Li'l Kim and Erdogan who he just had at the White House.He brags about the billions his tariffs are bringing in which are coming directly out of the wallets of struggling working AMERICANS!!!On the right wing Drudge Report there is an article today saying that 70% of AMERICANS are struggling financially to meet their bills.

 

You don't think we're being damaged, world wide, every day trump is in office?

 

Careful, you almost sound like a Moderate.

 

Yes. But not as damaging as impeachment. And remember that the clamor for impeachment has been going on for most of President Trumps term. So the damage being caused to the U.S. is not entirely President Trump's doing.

No one, not even the president is "above" the law. But the presidency itself must be beyond the law at least to a degree. Just as members of Congress are beyond the law to a degree.

What about when there is a liberal Democrat president who is as hated and reviled by tens of millions of Americans and hounded by the national press as much as President Trump has been?

 

I think you are wrong. Why? For the two reasons you stated.

You are not the only one who knows that about Trump.

Uh-oh!

A longtime career employee at the White House Office of Management and Budget is expected to break ranks and testify Saturday in the House Democrats’ impeachment inquiry, potentially filling in important details on the hold-up of military aid to Ukraine.

Mark Sandy would be the first OMB employee to testify in the inquiry, after OMB acting director Russell T. Vought and two other political appointees at the agency defied congressional subpoenas to appear.

Double uh-oh!

He was among the career staffers who raised questions about the hold-up on the military aid to Ukraine, people familiar with the matter said, and his role gave him responsibility for signing the documents required to hold it up.

 

If the House impeaches and if the Senate removes Trump -- not likely under current circumstances -- it would be good riddance to an incompetent President.

Allow me to illustrate with a few examples, in a matter of speaking, the tip of the proverbial iceberg.

Trump Mideast policy is so favorable to Israel, the U.S. can no longer be trusted. The U.S. has been tossed out as a Mideast broker, replaced by Russia.

After a year and a half of Trump's trade war with China, Wall Street is finally recovering because it appears that the tariffs Trump caused are going to be removed. Millions of dollars were lost during that year and a half period.

Iran is closer to making a nuke. Why? Because in May 2018, Trump removed the U.S. from a working agreement with Iran called the JCPOA that permanently barred Iran from making a nuke. Iran has resumed her nuclear research, destroyed the largest oil refinery on the planet, seized and mined ships, and even shot down a very expensive American aircraft all because of Trump's incomprehensible decision and his harsh economic sanctions.

Trump is anti-Earth. He is removing the U.S. from the Paris Accord, joining thirteen other nations who have not signed the accord, some, like Iran and Turkey, are the largest emitters. He appoints EPA directors who are disenchanted with EPA policies. His appointments are industry friendly, kind of like the fox in the hen house scenario.

Trump's policies with respect to NATO, Ukraine, Turkey, the Assad regime in Syria, and the Middle East strongly favor Russia. Trump has never admitted that Russia interfered in our 2016 election, and he is severely critical of our intelligence agencies and the FBI.

In short, Trump gives new meaning to the term, incompetence.

 

We always see the left looking for someway to play "gotcha" to get Trump- never thinking any other way. It makes sense to believe that there was indeed personal interest in Bidens attempt to get the prosecutor investigating Burisma fired- because that jepordized the deal Hunter Biden had, and that provided Burisma a line to the white house, and thereby Joe as well. That certainly smacks of political corruption on our side, and it would make sense to think that Joe Biden's threat was made to preserve his own position. IF what appears to be the case there is true, we should have been pressing the Ukraine government to investigate it. and that is what Trump requested. He should have been concerned with giving the Ukraine more money is they were protecting that kind of corruption too. And, IF that kind of corruption existed, it would have affected the electoral potential for Joe- BUT IT SHOULD HAVE, because it would be fact, not smear. So far- I don't see a single democrat expressing any concern for what we know Joe did and the highly unlikely windfall Hunter got with no qualifications other than- being the VP's son. It smells big time, but the dems are nose-blind to corruption on their own side.

Note that big-time governments all over the world are run on tough rules- it's not the country club for nice guys. Every leader has to be careful what they say, and especially in a nation like ours, where every other person is an armchair amateur political critic with a bullhorn. It's mre a dog-fight than a country club- despite the formalities up front, and there are no poodles in the ring- certainly, not live ones. To win, it takes a pit-bull with guts. That's Trump. He's not going to please the ladies aid or the wimps- and I'd be disappointed if he tried.

 

Your opinion. Is he clairvoyant?

 

It's not rocket science to realize that trump is the most inept, corrupt, deplorable person to ever be president - ever.

 

Turn off CNN and look at the results, America is doing well, no matter how much you want him to fail.

 

I don't and Ill tell you why. It wasn't necessary. Trump maybe a lot of things but a slow learner isn't one of them. I believe the Biden mention at the very end was little more than a throw away. Why? Trump figured out very early on that his conversations with virtually every world leader is being listened to by a variety of people almost all of whom wish him harm on one level or the other. He knew two things going in that about half the "pros are being paid in one way or the other by Burisma. And none of them give a tinker's damn one way or the other about the Biden's clear violation of the emoluments clause. They do care about their cash cow getting gored. Hence the nonsense they are yelling about Biden is hurting Biden worse than any investigation was likely to and will continue to do so. Hence an investigation was entirely unnecessary from a political stand point. The Dems played right into Trump's hands. And this phony baloney investigation and the "I heard it through the grapevine testimony is not only taking Biden out it is making the Dems look like idiots.