Would you support splitting the U.S. into two nations?

If you are saying that most US and UK high schoolers would not know the answer I am surprised. In Oz we looked on questions like this in my high school as being pretty standard, albeit that was many decades ago.

 

Yes. It is surprising. I think the problem is, there is a strong tendency to the syllabus around testable things, rather than around conceptual things. So here in the UK the kids learn little formula and how to, supposedly, translate from kinetic energy to gravitational potential energy and back again, but it's all just memorization without understanding.

I don't know a lot about educational standards down under, except for having an impression that they're pretty good. (Entirely subjective though, based on an Australian friend's description of her own and her children's education.) . Australia punches about its weight in the area of mathematics education, the only place I have some special knowledge. I use some ideas which are supposedly of Aussie origin in teaching, for instance, in getting my tutees to think of the concept of "division" to mean "how many" or "how many in", and calling variables "pro-numbers", on an analogy with "pronouns".

 

Yes, our public schools do such a wonderful job of educating our young people, that I wonder why we don't extend this model to feeding ourselves as well? Bring the farms and food processor and supermarkets under government ownership and control, and what splendid results we would have!

And then, if some old reactionary, standing in the queue for his potato rations, proposed privatizing the farms and food processing plants and supermarkets, someone would scream "You want to DEFUND public feeding and ELIMINATE the requirement for vegetables [because no one would want vegetable unless the government mandated it] and no one will be able to afford more than just the basics of food! This idea of private production has already been DEBUNKED as nothing but extremist rightwingers trying to UNDERMINE and DEFUND public feeding in our nation!"

 

In Wisconsin's public schools, 92% of black students in 7th and 8th graders can't do math. It is hard to imagine a voucher system could do worse than that. What exactly is being undermined by giving high functioning blacks an opportunity at a better private school? We do have the data that proves that black kids who attend voucher schools do better academically than those that remain but I guess data and facts don't matter in discussions like this.

Date proving the failure of public schools:

Data proving the increase in performance at voucher schools:

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news...nts-see-declines-math-and-reading/2287056001/

 

I think the argument for vouchers is not entirely straightforward, and would need a lot of study, and discussion.

The main argument against them that I have heard, which is the argument against school choice in general ('charter schools' in the US), is, in effect, that parents, especially inner-city mothers (okay, we know who we're talking about here ) are not capable of making an informed decision, and would be easily conned by unscrupulous private enterpreneurs. There may be some merit to this, which would then suggest that more state oversight and supervision would be necessary.

However, letting schools break free of the school-board/teacher-union grip can produce marvellous results.

Everyone who cares about education should read about the British 'free school' called Michaela. ('Free schools' are like government-funded independent schools, and were an initiative of the radical Tory Michael Gove from the time the Tories were in coaltion with the Liberals.)

This Free School was founded by Katherine Birbalsingh -- you can tell by the name she is not a dreaded white-privilege-racist-fascist etc -- who was a teacher in one of Britain's dire inner-city schools. She gave a speech about what education was really like for the children of the poor under state provision at a Conservative Party conference -- it was a bombshell and she was quickly forced out of her job. [More details here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katharine_Birbalsingh ]

She started her own Free School -- similar to a Charter school but with more freedom (as I understand it): Read about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michaela_Community_School

Time Magazine had an article on it, here: https://time.com/5232857/michaela-britains-strictest-school/

This is one area where conservatives and some liberals ought to be able to agree: I can't understand people on the Left who look at Michaela School, and say that it would be better for these children to be in a local state school. (In the UK, most of the people who run the Conservative Party couldn't care less about state education, since they send their children to private schools. The Labour Party does whatever the teachers unions say. So it's a miracle that the miracle of Michaela School exists at all.)

 

If everyone who generally think of themelves as right of center were in one country, I absolutely promise you that 'monocultural' would be the last word you would use to describe it. It would be a madhouse of different views on every issue, from gay marriage to abortion to evolution to the free market to foreign policy.

The Left, on the other hand, in Blue America, would, I believe be much more uniform, and would become more so over time.
There used to be dissident voices on the Left -- independent thinkers who were genuinely interesting to read ... and made you think. Murray Kempton would be my number one nominee for a liberal you always had to read. Then there was Nat Hentoof, and Christopher Hitchens. A few such spirits are still gathered around Quillette, (Quillette.com), but they are a beleagured band. If America were to split Red/Blue I suspect they would emigrate to Red America. (I would certaintly hope so.)

It's true that there have always been acrimonious divisions in America. We even fought a war over one of them. I could be wrong, but I have the feeling that what has happened to the Left in America is a new development, which is qualitatively different from past divisions.The Left has adopted the totalitarian mindset, which does not brook dissent.

 

I don't really follow it, but I've seen multiple examples of something similar from the left on this forum. Basically, they don't like the way the current argument is going and are hoping they can suck you in to switching topics.

 

Of course I'm not as familiar with this zarate person as you brainwashed functional morons. He was found innocent and her death was a accident. If that's the right one I don't know.

 

So, someone who actually keeps up with events, and knows what happened is a brainwashed functional moron, and someone who only has some political opinions, but is ignorant of the facts, is not? But I thought you were intimately familiar with Sanctuary Cities and the reasons for this policy -- to encourage illegals to be witnesses to the non-existent crimes of other illegals.

Having strong opintions on something without actually knowing anything about it... I guess us brainwashed morons just aren't smart enough for that.

(Are you sure you aren't a rightwing troll pretending to be a Lefty, in order to make them look ridiculous? If so, shame on you.)

 

Sad!

That is ALL you can come up?

A pathetic attempt that sounds as if it was from an elementary school playground and does absolutely NOTHING to address the actual issue?

I appreciate that you own words are INDEFENSIBLE but that was a really vapid response.

Thanks for establishing that you are NOT interested in a SERIOUS discussion.

Have a nice day!

 

Would you support splitting the U.S. into two nations?

"F" - NO, lol... I'd need a passport to visit my German Shepherd on the E-coast & my Bull Terrier on the W-coast (not to mention my respective family members involved, lol)... that would sort of "SUCK"...

(sorry for being 'trite'... - to those who might actually be taking this supposition seriously, lol...) !!!

 

Your own link DEBUNKED the white nationalist bigotry content of your post!

Your "voucher program" performs at the EXACT SAME LEVEL as do public schools!

The problem is NOT the schools!

The problem is that the DENIGRATION and DISPARAGEMENT of all education by the extremist rightwing is having a DETRIMENTAL impact on children who NEED and DESERVE an education!

This SCREECHING about public schools BEGAN when the religious right tried to IMPOSE their nefarious theist AGENDA on the public school system. When the Courts REJECTED what they were attempting as UNCONSTITUTIONAL they began ATTACKING public education.

The end result has been DECLINING results because the INVESTMENT in our children's education no longer exists!

Vouchers are just a SCAM for the WEALTHY ELITE to STOP paying for public education and getting SUBSIDIES for the PRIVATE SCHOOLS that they send their own kids too anyway.

If you live in the inner city and want to sent your kid to a fancy private school upstate no amount of vouchers are going to help you because there is NO WAY to get your kid to that school on a daily basis!

So let's STOP blaming the hardworking teachers and cutting their salaries and benefits for no better reason than that they belong to a union. They are QUALIFIED PROFESSIONALS with tertiary educations and DESERVE to be paid commensurate salaries with those in the private sector.

Our children are WORTH a decent education!

Time to cut the extreme rightwing CRAP and get back on the TRACK that the Founding Fathers wanted of having an INFORMED ELECTORATE which BEGINS with a world class PUBLIC EDUCATION system.

Other westernized nations can do it!

Why are they so much BETTER at it than we are?

Is it because they do NOT have a bunch of white nationalist zealots trying to TEAR DOWN their public education systems?

Think about it!

 

Looks like yet another of your own links that you never bothered to read in it's ENTIRETY!

Nothing remotely like the FOR PROFIT schools here in the USA that want to LEECH off the public school budgets!

Her school WORKS because it TEACHES DISCIPLINE to the students!

Unless a child learns self discipline they will never succeed IMO!

It is a PARENT'S job to instill discipline into their own children but since that has FAILED the obligation has been erroneously IMPOSED on teachers instead.

Since that is the REALITY we have to live with in today's society we would be far better off providing TEACHERS with the tools they NEED to educate children in self discipline. That alone would have a far greater BENEFIT to the entire nation than the voucher tax SCAM for the wealthy elite.

 

Um right. My wife works at MPS and told me about what is going on. Instead of spending next week on reading, writing and arithmetic, district wide MPS will spend the week indoctrinating..... white man bad, straight man bad, gender confirming man bad, where are my gibs, black supremacy.... my tax dollars at work teaching black kids to hate people who like me.... noice

http://www.maciverinstitute.com/2020/01/black-lives-matter-to-dominate-mps-calendar-next-week/

 

Your extremist rightwing source has ZERO CREDIBILITY!

https://www.politifact.com/personalities/maciver-institute/

https://www.prwatch.org/news/2011/03/10347/consider-source-maciver-news-service

 

I clicked on those links but didn't find anything about their claim about MPS.
Are you saying that the MacIver Institute claims about MPS are not true?

 

And by the way, you have to be very careful when using 'fact-checking' sites.
They're generally run by liberals. This does NOT dis-qualify them automatically -- there are an enormous number of lies and distortions told by people on the Right, and these sites do a good job of nailing them.

They show their bias, however, when dealing with lies told by popular Lefitists.

To see this, you need to be familiar with the Michael Brown case. I won't go into it here, but just say it was a justifed killing by a police officer whose life was threatened by a violent thug. The Left spread the lie that the thug was an innocent teenager with his hands up pleading "Don't shoot!" Obama's Justice Department investigated and found this was false and the police officer's story was true. The Wikipedia article is pretty good on it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Michael_Brown

Two major Democratic Candidates, Kamela Harris and Elizabeth Warren, are now calling Brown's killing "murder". They no doubt know the truth, but are people without honor or conscience and find it convenient to try to capture the Black and Leftist airhead vote in the primaries by taking up a position their Democratic rivals will be reluctant to endorse.

I looked at Politfact to see what they would say about this issue: here is their take on it: https://www.politifact.com/article/2019/aug/14/death-michael-brown-legal-facts-democratic/

It's a masterpiece of obfuscation, quibbles about definition, references to irrelevant issues. Whoever wrote it should have been Goering's defense lawyer at the Nuremberg Trials.

So -- like everything else in politics, especially in a country moving towards social and political disintegration like the US, you have to very cautious about everything you read, even from sites which claim to be 'fact checkers'.

 

Two nations? Absolutely not.
A number of states could be combined to save enormous administrative costs.

 

Why only two? Hawaii should be an independent state. Alaska should go to Canada. The North-Eastern states could be independent or join the Canadian Provinces. What is left could be split into two by a verticle boundary but I don't know exactly where. Also ......

... is a good idea.

 

The whole thing really. The States haven't existed as anything even close to "sovereign" entities since the ACW and haven't been even regional fictions since the Interstates. Face it, States are Provinces, no difference.

This silly Balkanisation idea has been a fantasy of the ultra right since we told the Southron Planter Class they couldn't have slaves anymore. If you examine their beliefs closely enough you realize they want to bring back Kings and Nobility too.

 

So are you saying that you have no idea how public schools operate?

February is Black History Month here in America!

This is when the curriculum focuses on the CONTRIBUTIONS that Blacks have made to our nation.

The moronic white nationalist disinformation in that article was STIRRING UP HATRED just because the schools where sticking to what is essentially the same teaching curriculum that is used across the entire nation.

NOWHERE in the CITED curriculum did it mention BLM but the article dishonestly used that term because it is a racist DOG WHISTLE for white nationalists.

This is NOT rocket science. This is how the DIVISION is spread across the nation by hatemongering disinformation sites like this one that has ZERO CREDIBILITY!

 

That sounds similar to the post 2004 election temper tantrum, the United States of Canada.

 

I have always found in life that when the it is better to do something - change something. Your attachment above would be an improvement.

 

So, the claims of the MacIver institute are not true? This is just a 'Black History Month' thing?