New Evidence in George Floyd's Death?

Exactly. People want to bury their heads and pretend nothing bad is happening because that's easier than looking at a problem and trying to formulate a real solution. As you stated, it happens within the Catholic church. It happens in the Scouts. It also happens in foster care programs and group homes and, in ALL of them, the victim is shamed and blamed assuming anybody even cares to listen to them.

I already pointed out that I worked as an LEO and I've witnessed police brutality more times that I can count. Nobody cares what a cop does. I've heard it said more than once "It doesn't matter as long as you don't cripple or kill the person". It's long overdue for these bad apples to be called out and the problem handled.

 

The system is broken because it overlooks the few individuals causing the problem.

 

Of course it changes the original narrative and the charges the police officers should be facing. He would most likely have died regardless of what Chauvin did.

 

All true but law enforcement hasn't been given the respect due them for a long time. We saw this beginning in the late sixties the left labelled the police as pigs and perpetuated this myth every time they got caught engaging in seditious anti American acts. The left blames all of their problems on the government particularly when Republicans are in power. They take no responsibility for their problems and create boogeymen to explain them away. The police are convenient boogeymen but the truth is 99.9% of all LEOs are dedicated professionals and bad apples it seems exist only in large cities that are run by Democrats like Minneapolis. I think local law enforcement should be abolished and replaced with a coast to coast federal force and given much more latitude in dealing with crime.

 

I'm referring to the narrative that he was totally cooperative.

 

I'm not sure that it does. Bad cops are fired all the time. They have gotten rid enough of them that what happened to Floyed is extremely rare. Noboy bats .1000.

 

I doubt anyone is actually arguing against this position. The real point though, is that violence isn't reserved either exclusively or for that matter predominantly against minority arrestees. Trying to paint this problem as it if does diminishes the strength of the argument. If police have a legal right to use force, they will. It is up to the state, local/state/federal to determine it's appropriate use, or not. If, as you suggest, the standard is "up to but not to cripple or kill" I expect that is a colloquial standard, and one not found in law. And, if, as you wrote, you witnessed this, why not report the unnecessary use of force that you saw, and could have either a) stopped, or at least b) reported for its excess?

When someone points out that Floyd was high ( he was... fentanyl.) and he was Covid positive (he was) and had a violent, brutal history including holding folks hostage, that isn't victim shaming. It's simply referring to the facts that would have been available to the police as they arrested him. That his death created a movement isn't difficult to understand, it played a tune media like to hum about racism that frankly wasn't actually the cause of the scenario, unless it was mr Floyd feeling entitled enough to wander the streets with Covid. A question I haven't seen answered is how many folks did mr Floyd infect while he was out, unmasked, and high while committing his crimes? And why don't folks on the left, or within BLM acknowledge this?

Face it, George was in imperfect guy. If, as the coroner suggests, his death wasn't caused by the force exerted against him, what will you say? The optics are clearly awful for the cops, but why, in this case, is he death not listed as a Covid death given the state of his health? If, as body cam footage suggests, he complained about being put in a car because he already "couldn't breath", how would yo have handled his arrest?

And if, as you say, you're worried about this kind of policing practice, what are you doing to otherwise change their process? What should a cop confronted with a high covid patient be expected to do?

 

Do you have any data that shows police officers killing suspects is rare?

Do you believe that all police departments document incidents and encounters in a fair, consistent and complete manner?

Do you believe it's okay for there to be no real oversight in police departments and they have a vested interest in slanting their reports to potentially cover-up wrong doings in order to keep problem police officers on staff?​

These questions are not to call you out on anything. They are questions on my mind because I want to understand the other side. I really hope to find a way that both sides can come together and develop a way for ALL police departments to have some kind of independent oversight so ANY incident of wrong doing can truly be investigated and acted upon.

 

I think you need to ask different questions here. The first one should read....
1) Was the use of force dictated by policy, and if so, was deadly force required and justifiable.
2) Is there data that suggests police departments are not family documenting their incidents
3) Is there data that suggests that police or police unions attempt to cover up for themselves?

I'd say those are data that you should come ready to discuss. They are your assertions after all. Feelz just ain't gonna cut it here.

 

I'm wondering why there is not a general uprising against city officials holding police back and allowing criminals free reign. Why would any city tolerate that?

 

My only commentary on this issue has been about the knee on his neck. That is the post to which you responded. If you wish to discuss a different nature, surely there are others interested in discussing that aspect.

 

If you would like, I can import the FBI documents that show blacks are four times as likely to commit murders, robberies and a number of other violent crimes than all other racial groups put together.
Then you can explain why police should approach a black suspect with the same levels of caution and concern they do when approaching any other suspect.

Blacks are 13% of our population. Most of them are good people. But the share of that 13% that are not account for 53% of all murders in the nation.
How shall we have our police ignore that? Pretend it's not so; risk their lives so that the excuse of black privilege will always be like a free pass card?
They are so used to that working that it has offensive that it's not 100%,

We can deal with improper police conduct without setting fire to major cities. Think on that, see if you can't find that concept to be rational.

Grown men can deal with serious situations without losing control of themselves.
Spoiled brats who refuse to be responsible for themselves cannot.
Which do you think we are dealing with here?

 

Fair enough. Let's start with those questions. #2 should read "fairly" instead of "family". Thanks for the suggestion.

 

Of course it isn't. I never suggested that it was. The position that I stand behind is that some police officers (the "bad apples") unfairly target some people which includes minorities at a disproportionate rate than non-minorities for the same/similar incidents.

I didn't suggest the standard of appropriate use as anything. I mentioned that I have heard rationalizations that police brutality doesn't matter as long as the target hasn't been crippled or killed. This is often the rationalization used by abusive parents as well. Basically, if you can't prove that you were hurt, it didn't happen and there are bunch of people willing to lie to make that narrative seem true.

Floyd's death is not the cause of the backlash. It is a "snapshot" of situations that are allowed to happen all over the country. Unfortunately, most incidents aren't recorded for the world to see and those are the ones rewritten in police reports and silently ignored as yet another person's loved ones' tears and demands for answers fall on deaf ears.

All people are imperfect. I fully expected the coroner to say that his death wasn't caused by force exerted against him so I have nothing to say. I will not comment on how I would have handled the arrest because it's irrelevant. It's very easy to make judgments and ridicule someone after the fact. In the heat of the moment, LEOs have to make fast decisions and they have to try their best to keep themselves and their fellow officers safe while carrying out their duties. It is NOT an easy thing to do and every stop has the potential to be life-threatening. Are there things I would have done differently? Sure. Do I think the officers were 100% wrong? I can't answer that. What I know is it's unfair to try cases in the media and it's a disservice to society to have the media cherry-pick incidents to give an inaccurate snapshot of incidents just to flame race wars.

I do not feel it prudent to discuss what I have done and am doing to effect change in this area. LEOs are confronted with the worse of the worse every single day. Most do their jobs well. Some become burnt out quickly. Others struggle with mental health issues but are afraid to talk about them because of the stigma and it can derail a career. All LEOs should follow safe practices as defined by their commanding officers and do their best to uphold the law while serving and protecting the community in which they are assigned. That should be the standard for any officer at any time with any current conditions (this one happens to be COVID-19) with any suspect/detainee.

At the end of the day, there are bad apples in every bunch. Not all cops are abusive and unhinged. Yet, the ones that are make the others look bad and it's only natural for those most negatively impacted by them to demand justice.

 

Typo duly noted.

 

nonsense. it changes nothing.

 

which he was. it actually makes what the cops did worse since he was very passive and friendly.

 

yet there are still so many bad apples as evidenced by the slayings we see weekly. there must be an absolute deluge of crooked cops. thats a serious problem, maybe an infiltration.

 

It proves George Floyd is not the innocent individual the media has been portraying him as. The truth of the matter is that he is nothing more than yet one more violent, convicted felon, who believed he was entitled to engage in criminal activity whenever he wanted, as well as violently resist law enforcement for attempting to execute a legitimate arrest.

 

Show the supposed "weekly" slayings that are occurring. Demonstrate such.

 

Para 4 should have been written, "worst of the worst", nor "worse of the worse"... As long as we're being grammar cops.

So, I take it from your response then that you don't in fact have any useful suggestions here. It seems a very long winded explanation for such a short observation. You told Blue that just like other areas where things like sexual abuse happened (ostensibly it occurs often in policing as well, just fyi) those could be considered an apples to apples kind of conversation. The boy scouts, the Catholic church, Denominational churches and their camps, etc, don't enjoy the use of force, though. From a logic perspective, using them as a comparison is somewhat dishonest. Now, the incidents of police using their jobs as justification for raping or harassing others.. that's pretty well documented.

My réponse was to demonstrate that the use of force was dictated to the police in this case because of the presentation of the perp. George had many flaws, many of which likely required the police to deal with him in the way that they did. I'm not happy that George died in the process, and I'm sure that the police in Minneapolis could have done many other things than keep him detained face down on the street with a gleeful look on his cop detainer... Like I said the optics here aren't great. The real issue here is that this was used as justification for the BLM and Antifa folks to burn. loot, and riot in the public streets yet again, using a narrative that is essentially unfounded.

And that should concern us that our media are so complicit and that democrats in general have supported this crap.

 

You shouldn't expect a response from this one.... Nothing but pure hyperbole and rage.

 

I'll read whatever you'd like to post.

 

Please do. I've seen these numbers before and they are wrong, made up to scare suburbia. One quickie, 60% of murders are unsolved, how can blacks have committed 53% of all murders when only 40% have convictions?

 

Fact, he was already in severe cardiac distress and unable to pump oxygen through his body long before he collapsed to the ground.