Appeals court judges push back at request to dismiss Michael Flynn case

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/08/11/politics/michael-flynn-case-request-to-dismiss/index.html

Wow!!!!! Music to my ears. It seems that the DC Appellate Court is not going to be snowed by rubbish either. I do not know why this is controversial..........Mandamus can only be granted if there is no other recourse available to anyone feeling aggrieved. It is obvious Flynn's Attorney's overt attempts to bluster and even bully the Court on Fox is being met head-on, and that is great to see.

Just let Sullivan get on with his job. The DOJ wants to have a case dismissed after a plea of guilty, and Flynn wants to recant his plea, made under oath. Any Trial Judge worth his salt is going to see the political undercurrents in play here, and say to the Court. 'Nah, hang on. I do not hear to rubber stamp connivance, political fuqwittery and perhaps even corruption. I want to know what the fuq this is really all about.'

 

Typos. Should read ~ 'I am not here to rubber stamp connivance, political fuqwittery and perhaps even corruption. I want to know what the fuq this is all about before I exercise my inherent discretion.'

 

You mean the fact that there's inherent in the system pressure to push someone into pleading guilty, whether they are actually guilty or not?

So Flynn pleaded guilty, hoping to get a good deal, and then when the political winds of higher up changed, he wanted to withdraw that plea?


I hope I am not derailing this thread, but can anyone explain what the evidence actually is that Flynn did something wrong? (As well as how exactly that translates into a violation of the law)
I'm going to want to get some tangible grasp on that before I cast any judgement on either Flynn or the Judges.

 

So....let's allow Sullivan deal with that allegation rather than just have the allegation aired and then FALSELY pretend it has miraculously been proven via evidence under oath. Fact is....it has not been so proven. Merely alleged by Flynnsters.

 

Entering a guilty plea does not mean guilt has been proven either.

Judges are notorious for imposing sentences based on allegations, when there is a guilty plea, rather than on the details of actual evidence.
(it's a mix of personal laziness and intrinsic failures in the design of the system)

 

No, even on pleas of guilty, the defence can challenge any assertion made by the Prosecution which they believe is a false allegation.

 

Unfortunately, Democrats sort of have a track record of not removing their crooked prosecutors. So who knows if Flynn actually deserves it.

 

Over to Judge Sullivan, then.

 

The question is, will he do his job fully and perform due diligence, or will he rely on the prosecutor (like most judges seem to do most of the time) ?

 

Any judge worth his salt would have seen what a railroad job by the FBI this was. He should throw it out just as the DOJ has said to do. The only politics played here was by some bad actors in the FBI.

 

Here's another twist in the case:

And it would give U.S. District Judge Emmet Sullivan another shot at convincing the higher court that his equally controversial action - appointing a third party to challenge the prosecutors' bid to drop the case and to examine whether Flynn had committed perjury for pleading guilty and later claiming to be innocent – was justified.​

https://www.usatoday.com/news/


Apparently, Sullivan may be wanting to go after Flynn, paradoxically, because of Sullivan's support for Trump. (I could be totally wrong here, but bear with me on this theory)

Under pressure from the crooked prosecutor, Flynn caved in and lied, saying what the prosecutor wanted to make Trump look bad or help incriminate Trump. Now, Flynn wants to backtrack to get out of personal trouble, but to do so, he has to admit he lied. That is, he lied about himself being guilty, to save himself. (Yes, that is a paradox, try to wrap your mind around that)

The judge is having none of this, and resents lies being told.
Even though Flynn didn't really want to tell those lies and was sort of cajoled by the justice system into doing so.

But then Flynn still lied to save his own hide. (And part of that was that he lied about himself being guilty)

 

DOJ is not claiming he was railroaded.

 

If he was just relying on the prosecutor this would already be over

 

Let's see. So far, he has been prevented from doing anything by Flynn and a dumbarse single Judge whose action seems to have attracted negative interest from the the DC Appeals Court.

 

Here is the recording of the Appeal hearing. Lovely stuff.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?474473-1/michael-flynn-perjury-dismissal-case-rehearing-part-1

 

Apparently you and this Obama lackey judge are unaware that it's not the judges job to prosecute a case

 

Did you notice that they are not hearing all the same things that the 3 judge panel heard? That they are only addressing two questions. Mandamus and whether or not Sullivan should be removed. Frankly I don't see how they can't find in favor of removing him. He's been partisan this entire time. Ignoring parts of the DOJ reason to dismiss the case. Calling Flynn a traitor. Hiring a "friend of the court" that just a week prior had shown bias against Flynn and having that person not only argue as to why the charges should not be dropped but also to see if Flynn should be prosecuted further for perjury (something that is entirely only with in the realm of a prosecutor that works under the executive branch of our system of justice).

But this has become a political case. Not a case for justice. As such I fully expect this court of appeals to keep Sullivan on the job and deny Flynn's mandamus request. Then that will get appealed up to SCOTUS. They will finally put the whole thing to bed.

 

wow the DOJ has more evidence that they couldn’t make out public.

the obama admin really might want this to simply go away

 

Reply to the bolded:

You hit the nail on the head and actually bring up a potential unintended consequence of Trump's push for dismissal over those reasons.

Millions of accused are pressured into guilty pleas (I think something like 97% of all cases end in plea agreements?) because it's quicker and easier then a long and expensive (or short because the public defender has limited resources and faces an uphill battle) trial.

If Flynn gets his guilty pleas overturned due to prosecutorial pressure (threatening to go after the son), I suspect a LOT of defendants rights groups will jump all over a precedent setting decision and could cause a massive disruption to the US legal system.

This also shows the two tiers of the legal system where those with means can push back on such kinds of pressure and those without can't.

 

This is an absolute no brainer... even more so than the equally obvious McGahn decision last week.... The only question is: how quickly will they publish it....

When they give Sullivan power to hear the dismissal motion, that will also take time, and voila... it's past the election....

Trump will have to pardon Flynn, bottom line...

 

There is pretty much zero chance the SCOTUS will overrule the appeals court keeping a sitting judge on the case to hear a dismissal motion... you have to know that, right? And nothing gets "put to bed" by the SCOTUS now anyway (see new DACA applications).

But all of what you suggest will take time, and likely go past the inauguration. Do you think Trump will take that chance, if he loses the election??

I don't....

 

This is all rather pointless. Sullivan should have just done his job and dismissed the case.

but now that we know Barr has more evidence, evidence that he didn’t want exposed, likely due to it exposing more corruption within the Mueller team’s prosecution, i think it is time to bring it all out

 

Although I completely agree with what you said, isnt the question here wether or not the trial judge has the right to deny Flynn the right to withdraw his plea ?

We all know this is political hackery by the DOJ. This DOJ is the most politicized I think we have ever seen it in our 250 year history. They basically told Flynn, "just withdraw your plea, and we wont retry the case". The judge saw that and said "hold the phone", but the DOJ now says he doesn't have the right to do that. Legally im not sure where this will end up.

But let's just be honest. This administration has been very transparent in their politicization of the DOJ. When Barr made the announcement on the Stone sentencing and ALL 4 of the CAREER prosecutors quit, that would be a watershed moment in in any country, but with what the Trump admin has done to the federal government, that was just another Tuesday in america. Now they also want to protect another of their administration for their illegal deeeds, and silence any more possible details getting out to the public, that they are literally saying "were just not going to go after criminals who worked for us".

We literally have the Trump administration trying to exonerate themselves in the court of public opinion by selectively leaking "information" that is politically expedient to them. Think about that. We literally have the fox actually opening the door to the henhouse and then while picking feathers out of his teeth, giving a nationally televised interview say "I never touched those hens"

Its amazing to watch.

If they really had information that would exonerate them, they would have release it. But they don't so they selectively release things that are politically expedient. I fully expect a release from Barr and his cronies just before the election about something that Biden and Obama did while in office to try to sway the election. They have no shame in what they do, and they really believe they are above the law

 

They will rule on the Mandamus. And yeah, its quite possible that they will rule on his removal.

And that is what its all about isn't it? Try to force Trump to pardon him? Making it even more political. That way the Dems can keep to their claim that Flynn was guilty all along. Despite the evidence to the contrary.

 

No, at this point, I suspect it's more about running out the clock to get a new AG to withdraw Barr's ridiculous attempt at withdraw...

But the delays, most of which have been caused by Flynn, are going to push this right to the end...

Flynn was a righteous bust. I wasn't 1000% sure until I read the call transcript, but anybody in law enforcement who didn't investigate that would have been derelict....