Is God the Great Gamer?

Why would you council folks to abandon Jesus -because some folks have soiled his name. Is this why you abandoned Jesus and the search for the Truth ?

Do not be swayed by the fundamentalist/literalist .. as the faith of such folks is like a house built on sand ... a crack in the smallest pillar topples the whole structure.

For as we read in Scripture Matt 7

Why is it that you run from scripture and avert your eyes from anything that conflicts with your made up dogma ... this is not the makings of a solid foundation in Christ.

 

Then please explain t

Then please explain to me how does one know anything about Jesus if the Bible is as corrupt as they say? The Bible even says, "without faith is is impossible to be pleasing to God". That is a fact. So with that fact taken, isn't it reasonable that they just abandon the Bible altogether? If the "fact " is that if God is not able to protect and inspire His written Word, then none of it is reliable. Why not move on to something else? The fact is....people like to pick and choose what is acceptable to them. That is why they call themselves "Universalists! They take their favorite parts of everything using their personal logic.

 

There is nothing in scripture I don't embrace. You are the one that says, "man has his dirty hands all over it". I think you would like to have your dirty hands all over it and start a new Book because you want to convince others you know how to pick and choose. Why don't you just start your own game ....like Joseph Smith did!

 

You quote scripture more than anyone but you say "man has his dirty hands all over it". That is a contradiction that is not easy to understand. So new Believers should have a Giftedone Concordance so they don't get out of line? I think you have a very high opinion of yourself!!

 

Why do you keep trying to tar others with your action. It is you who is the literalist - you who'se belief is carved in stone .. and it is you who runs from scripture.

Jesus did not claim to be equal with God .. why do you persist in this horrible blasphamy .. You cherry pick a phrase out of context from John 14 - and make up your own meaning - while completely ignoring scripture which contradicts your made up narrative .. from John 14

Did this "Go right over your head" .. or did you just not bother to read ? Jesus does not claim to be equal with the Father .. he said clearly that the Father is greater than he is .. followed by the claim that he is commanded by the Father. This and similar statements by Jesus being the reason the early Church Fathers believed Jesus was "Subordinate" to the Father.

 

Your god-thing has a proven track record of waffling, changing his mind, and changing the conditions.

Thus, your god-thing can never be trusted.

He is.

I know nothing of Zedek.

However, Melchizedek means "anointed of Mekizide."

Mekizide was a son of Ningishiddza, who was a son of Enki (if you're wondering, "ki" and "chi" have the same sound.)

Note that both Enki and Ningishiddza were "serpent gods" whose emblem or symbols was the cadeuces -- two snakes intertwined on a cross which is the modern symbol for medicine. Both Ningishiddza and Enki, along with Enki's half-sister Ninhursag, are credited with creating/modifying humans.

That is the best translation/interpretation.

There is no such thing as tense in Classical Biblical Hebrew.

People who don't understand that often butcher Genesis 6, because all the following translations are possible:

1) Man's days were 120 shars
2) Man's days are 120 shars
3) Man's days will be 120 shars

That, in conjunction with failing to correctly interpret the Sumerian-Akkadian loan-words in Genesis 6, has led to bizarre interpretations such as Man's days are/will be 120 years as some kind of statement on human longevity, and the Young Earth nutters claiming it was 120 years after creation, except their acrobatic mathematics fail, too.

A shar is a great year of 3,600 years, thus 120 * 3,600 = 432,000 years.

What was being conveyed is that humans had existed for 432,000 years prior to Deluge which x-tians erroneously translate as "Flood."

That's right, the word for "deluge" is also Sumerian-Akkadian and not Classical Biblical Hebrew.

Plus, they fail to recognize 432,000 as a sacred number in all cultures.

On the Day of Ragnorook (aka Judgment Day), 540 warriors pour forth from each of 800 doors or gates in Valhalla.

540 * 800 = 432,000

You should know that the four yugas -- Satya Yuga, Treta Yuga, Dwapar Yuga, and Kali Yuga -- are descending in scale of scared years and that a sacred year is 432,000 years:

Satya Yuga: 432,000 * 4,000 = 1,728,000,000 years
Treta Yuga: 432,000 * 3,000 = 1,296,000,000 years
Dwapar Yuga: 432,000 * 2,000 = 864,000,000 years
Kali Yuga: 432,000 * 1,000 = 432,000,000 years

The fact that Scandinavian people are obsessed with a number used by people in India/Pakistan that originated in the ancient Middle East should prompt normal people to start asking some serious questions

No doubt.

 

It is simple fact that the Bible has the dirty hands of man all over it. -- and this has been demonstrated to you countless times .. but you refuse to embrace the truth. You also do not embrace scripture which contradicts your man made dogma.

For example - Jesus says the path to salvation is through works - yet you adhere to the "Faith Alone" doctrine of your Idol Martin Luther.

What part of "everyone who hears these words and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man" did you not understand ? What part of Jesus is talking about how to get into heaven .. did you not understand.

What part of the previous passage "Not everyone who calls lord lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven" did you not understand.

 

I know I alot of Scripture .. which you run and hide from. I did not say that all scripture is a function of mans dirty hands .. why are you talking such gibberish .

Why would you want a "Giftedone Concordance" - when you can't manage to study the scripture you already have .. sans a few cherry picked phrases you agree with- from a fellow that never met Jesus - and knew almost nothing of his life.

I do have a high opinion of myself.. but this pales on comparison to your bloated opinion of yourself .. and while my opinion is based in facts and evidence - your opinion is based on a desperate attempt to make scripture fit into your man made dogma - and running and hiding from the Teachings of Jesus.

Would you like to see some scripture that has man's dirty hands all over it ? == or would you rather run and hide from the Truth ?

 

I''m so familiar with this kind of accusation that even the smallest hint catches my eye. It's the very old libel that Jews changed their sacred texts to eliminate all (alleged) references to Jesus. The poster repeated that libel when he said that Jews avoid certain words.

He also didn't answer my post, just hinted that Jews are ready and willing to kill Christians.

There are significant differences between the Hebrew Tanach and the Septuagint. Christians follow the Septuagint, Jews don't. Sweeping statements about Jews' beliefs and behavior based on the Septuagint are just plain wrong. because Jews' beliefs and behavior are not related in any way to the Christian interpretation of a book that Jews reject.

I don't care what Christians believe, what they think Jesus said, or how they live their lives, as long as they don't make Jews scapegoats again. This two thousand years old madness has to end.

 

Because they had no freedom of choice. It was either believe in Jesus or die.

Right, because we all know how wonderful slavery is and treating women as 2nd Class citizens gets you one step closer to god, and then your god-thing absolutely loves dictatorships.

 

I don't believe that is what got him put to death.

He led a group that was perceived as a political disruption and threat by local government - both Roman and Jewish. They wouldn't have accepted that regardless of the religious particulars.

I agree that it could be perceived as a greater threat if the leader claims to be god. But, that's still not going to mean much without the issue of having a significant following while rejecting the local elements of government, which at that time were very tied to religion.

Think what the possibilities might be if some Iranian claimed to be God, rejected the Ayatollahs, and started gathering a noticeable following.

 

You should find out about Zedek .. as this is the Patron God of Jerusalem .. hence why the Priest King of Jerusalem is named after this God.

Shamash is the son of Enlil (EL) .. brother of Enki (Ea) who you mention .. one of the other Son's of God .. Marduk and YHWH being two others who come along later. Shamash is not only a "Son of God" but also the "Sun God"

So we could look at Zedek as either a separate God .. or an emanation from the "Sun God" and/or the Godhead.. Zedek is then a representation of "The Prince of Peace" "King of Righeousness" .. the Judge .. one who Judges .. represents justice.

Go look at some of the names of the kings of Assyria - Babylon - you will find the majority are named after some patron God .. Enlil, Marduk, Nebo (nebochadnezzar) .. and so on. Notice the ending of the name Samuel .. or "Israel" this is not a coincidence.. but I digress.

So who is this Melchizedek fellow ? High Priest and King of Jerusalem - a Canaanite city at the time of Abraham .. who helps Abraham in a big battle .. Abraham then tithes 1/10 to the High Priest .. and recognizes his Authority .. together they conduct rituals in the name of "The Most High" both worship the same God as the Most High .. and that God is El.. Mentioned in this position a number of times in the Old Testiment .. Abraham knows naught of any YHWH.

At the time .. Abraham .. Melchizedek - and everyone else in the near east believed in many Gods .. Abe's idea was to only Worship one .. the "Most High" on Earth .. who at the time was El.

The Melchizedek Priestly line is that which is maintained under King Solomon .. "NOT" the Aaronian line.. the name of Solomon's High Priest .. Zadok ..

It is no coincidence that Jesus is "The prince of Peace" "King of Righeousness" along with Judge .. at the end of days. no coincidence that the early Christians depicted Jesus with the "Halo" of the Sun God.. and in fact he was worshiped as the Sun God

https://www.britannica.com/topic/sun-worship

Think it wasn't until the mid 5th century AD that they stopped worshiping Christ as the Sun God during a festival on the steps of The Church of St. Peter. ..

 

Me thinks that the leader(s) who sought to unify culturally diverse tribes into an homogeneous stable society used this "I'm your ancestors' god but I can't tell you my real name" trick to make members of each tribe identify the unknown god with their own and end up with one religion for all as a strong social glue. It certainly took time to blend all the mythical ancestors and lesser deities of all tribes into one glorious Abrahamic tale. For instance, the sun god Joshua Bin Nun became a mighty human warrior, and the fertility goddess Rahab became a prostitute.

Do you have a source for shars? Is it Myth of the Phoenix?

You and @Giftedone are the only posters on two forums - including atheists - who try to put Judaism and Christianity in the proper cultural and religious context of the respective epochs. It blows my mind that all the exegesis of a religious text is done using that text exclusively, as if nothing else existed that could have any influence on the developing cultures at the time.

 

Jesus was killed because the Pharisees could not tolerate having their power usurped by a poor carpenter. The Romans played hot-potato with Jesus and were not necessarily inclined to kill him, so, eventually, they shrugged and left it to a crowd of scum, incited by the Pharisees, to decide Jesus's fate.

Many parallels to today.

 

According to your own Scriptures, Jesus' death had been carefully planned by God himself. Jesus was killed because God decided Jesus' fate.

 

Good further illumination of particulars.

I strongly suspect the Pharisees would have reacted the same way to any individual who was gathering a following and was actively insulting them, such as in the "money changers" story.

 

I am a person of faith, but that faith does not extend to the Bible. It has been corrupted, in my view, by those who want to further an agenda. I've found that the people who pick and choose, when it comes to the Bible, are those most familiar with it and follow its teachings. Those who do not believe in the Bible don't pick and choose - but they will use parts of it to show you the inconsistencies.

 

Jesus knew it was God's plan for Him to die - same as for you and I - the difference is that Jesus knew he would be the final sacrifice for the sins of the whole human race.

 

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It's always impossible to refute claims that god did something.

I think the discussion is more about the sequence of actions and reactions that played out on Earth.

 

I think it is important to try and understand what the poeple living at that time thought .. rather than try to frame the things that these people wrote in terms of a modern frame of reference. Take the Trinity for example .. folks try to claim "Let us make man in our image" refers to the modern Trinity .. which is preposterous nonsense.

Those that wrote Genesis
1) had no knowledge of a Trinity
2) simply did not believe that there was only one God
3) what they did believe in was a divine pantheon .. even if they only worshiped one in that pantheon ..
4) Everyone in the near east (not just the tribe of Judah) had the same or similar creation story as in Genesis .. and it matters not where the story came from .. as everyone reading the story at the time of the Ancient Israelites - would think that "US" referred to "US" and that the "Son's of God" referred to the "Sons of God"

So we can say .. OHHH OHHH OHHH . those were angels .. but that is not what the people writing the story nor those reading the story believed. They believed the "Son's of God" were "Sons of God" .. El was reputed to have 70 son's .. Deut 32:8 tells us how the nations were divided among these Son's .. YHWH's portion being Israel. https://thedivinecouncil.com/DT32BibSac.pdf

What is particularly in interesting is the comparison on Page 7 -- of Deut 32:43 in different Bibles .. LXX and 4QDeut being old bibles .. pre common era 100-300 BC.. and the version from which our modern bible is translated .. the Masoretic Text (MT) compiled 700-900 AD.

You can see that mention of other divinities was completely removed. If you then look up the modern translation .. even the MT is bastardized .. the text having little or no resemblance to the original .. unfortunately.

 

I don't believe Jesus the man ever existed. He's obviously a fusion of an agrarian god and a sun god, a god who dies and comes back to life like so many pagan gods. The only difference between Jesus and the other gods is his alleged intention to save human souls. The Christian narrative is about a god who chose to die a horrible death just to save humanity. Oh, the hubris of men!

 

While I believe you are most likely correct about this, given the numerous similarities with other religions of the time, I don't tend to try to push on that.

People are going to believe in Jesus and I'm not going to change that even if I wanted to.

It IS true that reports of one man in Judaea got back to Rome as being a problematic character, as that is mentioned in the writings of Tacitus. But, that doesn't offer support to the supernatural powers angle.


In my view, we should push on ensuring that science and religion are kept separate, as any mixture of those two is a serious problem.

And, I think there are elements of what Jesus said that are positive messages for how we live and govern today. I'm particularly appreciative of what Jesus said in Matthew 25:31 to end.

 

Yes, there are traces of belief in the existence of other gods in the Tanach. In fact, even today religious Jews consider those who worship only one god (and keep the Noahide Covenant), regardless of who that god is, righteous people to be resurrected and enjoy eternal life at the end of times.

 

Nothing @yabberefugee has said even hints at the lies you're spreading about him.

You're lying and accusing people of things they did not do. You're slandering someone because he doesn't believe as you do. This is evil.

The Jews translated the Septuagint. Blaming the Christians for a translation which was done hundreds of years before they existed is the epitome of silly. Claiming that the Jews never followed a translation they made is also silly.