Must we really hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters?

Yes, taking the word of God over the fickle word of man that can rationalize any and every atrocity.

 

One of the main purposes in writing the Bible was to have a collection of stories that would counter the newly written Koran. The writers included a lot of genocides so that the priests could use them to inspire the Crusaders to engage in similar actions against the invading Muslims. Murder and torture isn't wrong if it is God-approved.

 

they also both wanted to convert the Jewish, the religion both of their religions was based on

 

It is speculated that Jews helped establish Islam. They are very similar religions.

 

Jews helped establish both the Christian and Muslim religions, Jews that wanted something new, so they created a new religion

 

He was a typical cult leader. Cult leaders often want followers to cut off ties with family members.

 

Better yet, how can people now go through the mental gymnastics they do to explain that the words don't mean what they actually say. Cult leaders always promote an us v. them mentality.

 

I just think you have yo read the whole thing up to verse 34. Be prepared to lose everything, including your family, for Jesus.

 

I agree. A lot of the stories in the Bible must be considered allegories.

Allegories have value when the focus is on the meaning they were intended to convey and when the social context is well enough known to allow an accurate translation.

Demanding that allegories be scientifically accurate is a mistake.

We have the context for our far more recent allegories - Aesop's Fables, Chicken Little, the Ant and the Grasshopper, etc. So, we know what they convey. Plus, allegories just don't get used much in our internet era.

 

Can an allegory be false?

 

Paul and the rest were working on setting up religious communities in distant lands. One can see in Paul's letters that these remote churches had a hard time not being influenced by the local society, including friends and family.

So, I'd suggest you are pretty much right on this.

However, I wouldn't agree that the early church was like the cults that are problematic today.

They weren't getting the kids to drink poison laced Kool Aid. They weren't self aggrandizing. They weren't after the assets of those around them.

 

They worshipped a man they believed beat death. Seems pretty cult like.

 

Clearly, one could create allegories that would promote ideas that are not just false, but seriously problematic.

Aren't we essentially doing that today with conspiracy theories? That's not as artful as an allegory, perhaps, but if you want to create some serious problems you can combine various conspiracy theories and cause people to do nearly anything - try to kill the VP, try to eliminate our democracy, etc.

 

You can believe anyway you feel makes you happy I guess but I don't think you know Jesus. Jesus is not just a good person, he is God in the flesh. The ten commandments say. "honor your mother and father" . If you are commanded to do that how would you hate them? Could it be Jesus was just using a comparison? Well.....that would be more fitting with the rest of His Word! In John it does say "In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, and the Word was God". Jesus is the Word. The ten commandments Jesus summed up in two "You should love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind.....and you should love your neighbor as yourself." Your love for God must exceed your love for family. By doing that, you fulfill that love and you will have greater love than could be imagined!

 

Agreed. I just meant that it was clearly done for positive reasons. The message of Jesus, what he did on Earth, would be great for us to model today.

He actually told his followers that if they didn't search out those in hospitals, in poverty, in prison and provide for their needs, even his own followers were headed for hell, right along with Satan.

 

No.....given the subject matter, you know for a fact the mockers were sure to show up!

 

Well, as pragmatists would say, some allegories are better than others.

 

I think there is some truth there.

One can't really conform to what Jesus called for by going to church on Sunday and partying with the heathens the rest of the time. And, being relatives doesn't change that.

Jesus demanded a real change. He directed his followers to walk the walk.

 

True. And, I think there are many that just can not be understood at all, because we've lost too much of the social context in which they were created.

 

I still worship the God Man that took it upon himself to take on our weaknesses, and submit to death on a cross while we spit in his face......as the greatest example of love the world has ever known. He overcame that death to show us how we can overcome eternal death and promised us a New World where there is no pain and suffering for all who believed in His provision. I personally choose to overcome the "cult" of "eternal death". I honestly wish you would to.

 

I have little interest in ancient Jewish religion.

 

I see Jesus as a doomsday cult leader. If for no other reason because he wanted to worshiped as God.

Paul, was a man who created a religion (not a cult) seeking no personal gain.

 

Paul had no understanding of Jesus and his teachings.

 

The Scribes and the Pharisees exemplified the Ancient Jewish Religion". They perverted God's attempt to turn mankind from his imperfection. Jesus is God's expression to us to understand we do not have the capacity on our own, (religion) to reach the standard of Holiness. This is not about man's effort to reach God. (religion). This is about God reaching out so that we can have a relationship with Him. God always gives "grace" to the humble, but he resists the proud".

 

Of course he did not. Never met Jesus. Never heard him preach.