Is anybody watching "Rings of Power"?

The frame provided by The Silmarillion and the LOTR appendices is mostly at a 50,000 ft. level, so some imagination and liberties are to be expected.

 

At what point did Tolkien say there were "no blacks" in his setting? When did he say that the "Silmarillion Period" was all white? Smells like nonsense.

 

I began reading Tolkien's work in 1966, yardmeat. Please don't try to tell me what's in any of it.

Question: Should a White guy be cast to play the part in a movie of a well-known BLACK personality, like Muhammad Ali, or Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., for instance...?

Do you see how this kind of wokish 'casting' nonsense turns immediately into politically-correct 'pander-bait'...?! If I were Black, I'd be highly insulted!

 

I didn't tell you. I asked. And you are obviously terrified of answering.

Where is the evidence that all of these characters are intended to be white? Maybe you have something, but your level of offense of being asked for evidence says probably not.

I'm sorry you are offended. I'm asking you for facts. You are refusing to provide. I will just assume that your offense is not based on facts until you are able to provide facts.

I'll ask the question you are running away from again to see if you are able to actually answer this time instead of just emoting: At what point did Tolkien say there were "no blacks" in his setting? When did he say that the "Silmarillion Period" was all white? Smells like nonsense.

 

As a follow up, @Pollycy , I'd like to remind you that Muhammad Ali and MLK were people who actually existed. Not only did Tolkien's characters never exist, but you have yet to substantiate your claim that ALL of his (fictional, mind you) characters were intended to be white. I doubt that Tolkien was that lazy and that bad at world-building, but feel free to prove me wrong.

 

Only a racist would oppose this!





It's just about getting the best actor for the role. Race has nothing to do with it.

 

Obama and MLK are real, historical figures. Elves are not.

 

I don't see what that has to do with anything.

 

Then you had no point to make. Feel free to come back when you have one.

 

If you can't respond just say so. It's not like there was any expectation you could contribute in any intelligent way.

 

The race of that character actually had some narrative relevance . . . and was specified in the material. Unlike your elves on shelves. I'm sorry if a sliver of critical thought was too much to ask for.

 

Really? Just like Tolkien's elves? LOL!

 

When did Tolkien say that all elves are white? Why was it ever important for the story? Why did the folklore that Tolkien drew from specifically mention dark skinned elves? Why would humans have multiple races while elves only have one?

 

You have not explained why a fictional superhero should be black. Why couldn't Ryan Gosling play him? What is your rationale?

 

Already provided. Try reading. But white (no pun intended) flag accepted regarding the questions I asked you and that you are too terrified to answer.

 

What's to be terrified? I can answer questions, but if you think "had some narrative relevance . . . and was specified in the material" is a good enough answer for you, why doesn't that apply to Tolkien's elves who were described as "fair?"

 

Because not only have you failed to show that Tolkien even said that all of his elves were white, and not only did the folklore he was drawing from mention dark skinned elves, but you haven't provided ANY narrative relevance specified in the material. This ain't rocket surgery, bud. Can you quote Tolkien saying that ALL elves were "fair"?

 

I watched the first episode. I had read the Simarillion years ago. The lore in the show doesn't seem to be following any of that so far? I also found that the characters seem to be the cornucopia of diversity the show is presenting, at least the first show. I'm not sure I want to continue with it, as the story doesn't seem to be willing to add any of the richness of the story needed to actually understand story so far.

 

You can quote me as saying all elves that Tolkien described were "fair."

Meanwhile you oppose race swapping a fictional superhero that is every bit as imaginary as elves are. It sounds like you concede that race can make a factor in casting, but you just disagree and which race and which casting. If you were not so intolerant of other's opinion's of casting of beloved stories (only your own beloved stories!) you might accept that some people have an argument.

So my message to you? Learn tolerance.

 

LOL.. yes. It would like recasting Black Panther and suggesting Wakanda was similar to Denmark....

 

That's literally the basis of your claim.

Because there was actually a reason for that character to be black and there isn't a reason why all Tolkien elves should be white.

Your reading failures are not my responsibility. See the above. See if you can comprehend it.

I have no problem with recasting based on race when the race doesn't really matter or (in the case that you are defending) when declaring that an entire race of beings must all be of one skin tone is absolutely bonkers. Recast War Machine as white for all I care. The race isn't an important character detail there. It is for Black Panther.

Try learning consistency. And intellectual honesty. And to read peoples' posts. And maybe try to come up with an excuse for your argument that all Tolkien elves have to be white.

 

No, it would be the equivalent of recasting the entirety of the human species as all being white.

 

I find that race swapping really matters if you love the source material and want representations to represent the source material accurately. That's why you are bonkers that Black Panther, and imaginary superhero that was created by two American Jews, must be Black even though there is no thread of reality to either Black Panther or Wakanda. Now if you were talking about a beloved African mythos translated into film, then yes, the swapping of a Black character for a white one would stand out as wrong, but nothing about Black Panther is related to real Africa...even the Marvel Universe Africa is made up.

Therefore, Black Panther could be a white guy and it wouldn't matter.

Tolkien created an entire world, Arda, of which Middle Earth is only a small part, but it's the part he used as his stand in for Europe because...not surprisingly Tolkien was European and it probably never occurred to him to have black elves. But Arda is a big place and there are other continents where there may be no white creatures at all, man, elf, dwarf or what have you. If you want a BIPOC Tolkien, that's where you should have had your show set, not in Middle Earth.

I'm sorry you're so upset about this. Race often drives people incoherent and I understand that you came first to mock, and then got angry when someone showed you the mirror version of your mockery. But that's typical. As I've already said, race swapping doesn't matter if it doesn't matter for the story, but when all you can do is take already established IP's and race swap them, no matter how ridiculous, then that just shows you are afraid to make stories in BIPOC environments with BIPOC casts. Amazon paid a massive $250 million dollars just for the rights to Tolkien, when they could have made a show based on African, Indian, or Asian mythos for free, and never have to have a single white character in them. It's the silly water coloring of established IP's that look absurd to me, and to you too based on your unhinged Black Panther racial defense.

 

Actually, the Haradrim, from the land of Harad (south of Gondor) had a somewhat "Middle Eastern" appearance, and were thus Caucasian, too, but in none of the three Jackson films did we see Blacks -- unless they were significantly disguised, among the Orcs...?

Want another example of brain-dead casting besides the one I gave involving John Wayne? Seven years ago, a lavish series based on three of Shakespeare's plays, called, "The Hollow Crown" released -- and it's really good. BUT, some nitwit decided that they must cast a Black woman as THE QUEEN OF FRANCE! The actress did a decent job of it, but it was a large, needless DISTRACTION. Why do they do this?!

 

Gosh, its hard to tell if you were being purposefully snarky there or not. Are you suggesting the casting for the show was ill advised then?