The Falklands - Who should own these godforsaken islands?

The British aren't welcome any where...not even in Londonistan.

 

I agree. Mate, all Argentina are interested in is a spoil of the oil. They don't give a flying f**k about whether the Brits keep hold of their passports, listen to Queenie on christmas day, raise their silly little union flags, morris dance on a saturday afternoon, wife swap on a saturday evening or go down to the pub on a sunday for a pint and some roast beef and yorkshire pudding.

It's a cost-benefit issue. We will potentially lose far more in the medium to long term by continuing to alienate them then we would by coming to some arrangement over the oil. They don't give a crap about the rock itself only the water that surrounds it. This ain't 1982 anymore, its 2012.

 

Nonsense... I've lived in London for the last 25 years. You're talking bullcrap.

 

This academic paper concludes that both nations have legitimate claims and from the standpoint of international law, there is no definitive answer. The principle of self-determination may not be applicable to the Falkland Islands from a British point of view while Argentine is keen on extending the decolonisation concept.

http://www.austlii.com/au/journals/AUYrBkIntLaw//1978/2.pdf

 

A colony implies a foreign nation arriving and subjugating a native population...Did not happen and the only population is British.

 

The question of sovereignty over the Falkland Islands should not logically arise, for a number of reasons.

The British were the first to discover and land on the islands in 1690 when Captain John Strong sailed through Falkland Sound. In 1766, the British constructed a fort at Port Egmont, to discover a French colony established at Port St.Louis at roughly the same time. The first sovereignty disputes began and the Spanish expelled the British colony in 1770, only to be kicked out by the British in 1771. In 1774 Britain erected a plaque establishing British sovereignty, and the islands were used thereafter by British and American sealers as a base.

The United Provinces of the River Plate representative Vernet approached the British for permission to build a settlement at Puerto Soledad (a former Spanish settlement) and requested British protection for this settlement.

Vernet's appointment as Governor in 1829 by the River Plate Provinces was protested against by the British Consul, in return the Government of the United Provinces of the River Plate merely acknowledged the protest. Britain protested again when Vernet announced his intentions to exercise exclusive rights over fishing and sealing in the islands. Similar protests were received from the American representative, who protested at the curtailment of established rights and that the United States did not recognise the jurisdiction of the United Provinces over the islands.

The United Provinces assertions of sovereignty were the spur for the British to establish a military presence on the islands in 1833. On 2 January 1833, Captain James Onslow, of the brig-sloop HMS Clio, arrived at the Spanish settlement at Port Louis to request that the Argentine flag be replaced with the British one, and for the Argentine administration to leave the islands. Argentine Lt. Col. José María Pinedo, commander of the Argentine schooner Sarandí, protested verbally, but departed without a fight on 5 January. The colony was set up and the islands continued under a British presence until the Falklands War.

After their return in 1833, the British began moves to begin a fully-fledged colony on the islands. A British colonial administration was formed in 1842. This was expanded in 1908, when in addition to South Georgia claimed in 1775, and the South Shetland Islands claimed in 1820 the UK unilaterally declared sovereignty over more Antarctic territory south of the Falklands, including the South Sandwich Islands, the South Orkney Islands, and Graham Land, grouping them into the Falkland Islands Dependencies.

Following the introduction of the Antarctic Treaty System in 1959 the Falkland Island Dependencies were reduced to include South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands. Under the 1985 constitution the Falkland Islands Government (FIG) became a parliamentary representative democratic dependency, with the governor as head of government and representative of the Queen. It is listed by the UN as a self-governing British territory, and it is peopled by British citizens who wish to remain so. This right was established by the UN Charter in 1945, and has since become the cornerstone of international law.

http://www.geocities.com/savepalesti...des/sgil1g.htm

Having established British sovereignty, and the rights of the Falkland Islanders to remain British, I do not see what arguments may be put forward to support the claims of a foreign nation some 300 miles distant from this sovereign territory.

Of course negotiation is always preferable to war, but human rights are not negotiable, and the rights of the Falkland Islanders are obvious and paramount. There should be no question of their having to submit, to any degree, to foreign administration. If we cannot fight to protect the rights and well being of British citizens, wtf can we fight for? There is no more just war than a defensive one which protects our territory and citizens from invasion.

 

This thread contains two types of posters.

Those that can see the blindingly obvious, that the Falklands are legitimately owned by the British..............and the other posters, that are British haters, arguing for arguing sakes.

At the end of the day the Falklands are British, have British people there, and good luck to the oil exploration going on around there....and hopefully the future revenues form the oil will help the economic cause of Britain.

To the British haters here...............carry on crying!

 

This is an issue on which most Brits agree, from Right and Left. A few like Simon Jenkins and Billy Bragg argue for capitulation, but Britain is still a global power with far reaching cultural and economic influence. We will expect our government to defend the Falklanders from Argentine aggression. These are people who for generations have lived in the Falkland islands. What is right and wrong here is not complicated.

Americans should stop their stinking hypocrisy. Of course Obama's attitude on this is more evidence of what a fair weather friend America is. The Falkland islanders have been in the Falkland islands as long as British colonists had been in the thirteen colonies in 1776. They have as much right to self determination as those colonists. In fact they have far more. The USA was built upon the theft and appropriation of land from the indigenous native American population. There has been no indigneous population in the Falkland islands. The utter contempt of the USA for the rights of its closest ally and their citizens is truly disgusting. We should never forget that America is a country full of anglophobes. America has no friends. It only has interests.

This whole episode has implications for "Atlanticists" like me. More and more the USA prefers its short term economic interests in Latin America and the Pacific Rim over long term alliances based on mutual values. Some of this is understandable and Britain should follow cue in understanding the importance of Asia in the twenty first century. But on an issue like this Britain should hold a grudge and exact a cost from the USA.

Someday, somewhere they will be looking for friends again, when the rest of the world stands against them - if only to placate that centre ground in American politics that is itself alarmed by American isolationism and reassured by Britain standing alongside it. Well, next time let them feel our coolness, and our Europeanness, that perhaps we might go with France and Germany over the next one and keep our blood and treasure out of the next American skirmish. Let's not forget how the USA is constantly stabbing us in the back over this one and how little Americans really care about the universal rights of man when an opportunity to curry favour with a bankrupt Latin American political failure like Kirchner comes along.

It's one more reason why Britain has to be at the heart of Europe. Our influence in the world is still very real - and those of us who live abroad know this more than most. But it can only be sustained by a long term alliance with a great power bloc. More and more the USA is seen to be an unreliable friend. The EU has to play the major role in the coming Asian world. As soon as American isolationists turn the USA inwards, which they will, Europe needs to take its opportunities to extend its soft power into Asia. This will require British political, military and economic leadership within Europe, not a drift towards the irrelevence of a Little England. Time to learn French and German chaps. And to make sure our territories and our friends there are properly protected from nationalist aggression and Argentine imperialism.

 

You can't stop an old Mexican chewing the cud .
He will have to come up with something much more creative when the British ( Team GB to Bertie) pick up more medals per capita than Mexico or the US in the Londonistan Olympics .

 

I am pro England but have a problem with the attitudes of some USA hating people in this forum that claim to be from England or the UK. That said I feel that in this age of feel good despite the ramifications and pacifism run amuck (It has its rare place) etc I feel that England has every right to defend her people and her possessions that is the Falklands.

Reva

 

Albert clearly doesn't get out much.

 

.......me.

 

I imagine you regard me in this category .
All I say -- and have said it in other threads-- I may despise the American system , its Geo Political strategy and the perverted form of Christianity used to justify it ; but that does not stop me liking individual Americans who tend to very hospitable and hard working .
Of course there is a very vocal ignorant Hilly Billy quota in the Forum , and rightly or wrongly I get the feeling that the better educated and intellectually sophisticated Americans are almost frightened to show their full presence and register their distaste at the rampant racism and prejudices that so often flood Topics .

 

I think every Englishman (and woman) has to be very much for the American Revolution. This was simply the continuation of the struggle for English liberty in England which started back in the Dark Ages, flowering into a republic, Democracy and the Rule of Law on the East Coast of America. It was also an act of supreme bravery. Was it not Franklin who said "we must all hang together or we will wurely all hang separately"? I truly believe, as Thomas Paine said, that the cause of America is the cause of all mankind. As we enter an Asian future, it is critical that the soft power of liberal ideas permeates public opinion in these lands and that authoritarianism is trumped by freedom.

Not looking too good now though. The same Tories who sided with mad King George, are alive and well again on the American Right. Anti-science, anti-secularism, these are the creatures who dominate PF.

Now the USA is prevaricating on the principle that the Falklanders should have self determination. It's a bloody disgrace. They are fairweather friends that our troops die alongside in American led wars. Talk about the summer soldier. That's the USA. Even back in the 1980s there were anglophobes who supported Argentina's illegal invasion in the Reagan Administration (Kirkpatrick). We English have to realize: they might like our cutesy accent when we go on holiday there, but millions of Americans hate Britain and have a xenophobic prejudice against us. We owe them nothing and need to realize that it is not in our own self interest to place any trust in any supposed "friendship" with America. America doesn't have any friends. It only has interests. That's not an insult. It's what they say about themselves.

America is still very important and anyone interested in world affairs still needs to understand the USA and what is happening there. It is overwhelmingly still the centre of global capitalism, even if it is slowly being eclipsed by developing nations in Asia. The USA cannot be ignored. But...Britain needs a European future. The Little Englanders should sit up and take notice at the treachery of our American cousins over the Falklands Question today. They will betray their friends and their principles for a little regional influence in the southern hemisphere. Let's not forget. Nor should we place any reliance on our alliance with them. The Falklands must be defended. In the next American war we should be busy defending our own. "Sorry chaps...can't quite make it for your show this time! You'll have to do the dying on your own this time. We've got a date with Ms Kirchner". Or something like that.

 

Capitalist states love to get their people all worked up about such issues: it stops them complaining about more important matters. And where there is oil, multiply that problem by the profit per gallon.

The legal case is not as straightforward as either side supposes (pace, Leo) , but obviously, at the moment, there is not likely to be a settlement, since préstige is involved. What at least two of us have been saying, though, remains true: the price per head of keeping people on these windswept islands is taking a lot of taxes, at the time when our thieving lot (God knows what's happening in Argentina) are busily destroying the NHS on the grounds we have no money. I think we'd do better to pay attention to the ways we are being rooked.

 

Well said .


......

 

The Falklands are self-financing, apart from the 0.3% of the British defence budget, but even that is offset by the provision of a base for the Antarctic patrol.

 

I wouldn't push the point of Duplicity too far . We are the acknowledged masters and rightly proud of it .
You can hardly expect an island of our smallness with few natural resources to keep ahead of the game by being honest .
Fortunately we only have to effectively compete with the Americans and Russians .
The former would never appear on Master Mind and the latter don't have to tell lies when they look like liars .They have forgotten how to spell Truth and only consider an enemy to be a Man if they can lie and cheat with a straight face and no conscience . As that is in our Souls , we just add a few drops of cunning .

 

The Falkland isles are not in Argentina's sovereign waters, thus they have no right to claim them simply because they are closer to them than the UK.

If proximity was a good reason to lay claim on an island, then why do the US not lay claim on the isle of Bermuda as it is closer to the US than any other country?

 

Well don't expect the US Administration to pay any heed to the wishes of Bermudans either. Of course no-one in the US is questioning why the USA should have sovereignty over it's Pacific islands, rather than Japan say, given that the USA no longer seems to recognize the wishes of the residents of a territory as having any bearing on it's sovereignty. It's simply a matter of US expediency. But it's a lack of principle that the USA will rue when China and India start to assert their territorial ambitions over the course of the rest of this century. It will be politely pointed out to an impotent US that the wishes of people and the Rights of Man do not matter, these being fair-weather points of American hypocrisy that the US only ever applied for narrow self interest.

 

Yes, the Peoples Republics of the left do not do that, They do not need to as anyone complaining simply disappears.

 

Pissed again? Must be a wild old time in Hicksville!

 

I thought the Falklands war was a localized affair limited to two parties - England and Argentina. It was rather wise for everyone else whether in Europe, Latin or North America to remain cool and not get dragged into the conflict in the manner of WW1. Why would you think otherwise and where is the treachery?

 

No, the whole UK was involved, alas, because of the present unfortunate constitutional position.

 

Don't worry .
Tell your twenty three man army to stand down .
If you are not up for an easy mission , we understand . Sheep shaggers .