The Catholic Church’s contemptuous attitude towards its “flock”

Actually, Bishop Cauchon was more into English politics than God. He found it necessary to falsify evidence, terrorise the Assessors, misquote Joan's defense in a report to Paris University, and refuse to grant Joan's repeated demand to be tried by the Pope or an unbiased Church Council.

In the fraudulent Court of the English with Cauchon leading the charge, Cauchon found Joan guilty. Thus, making the English happy. The English prepared for her execution. Unfortunately at the last moment Joan, out of fear, signed a document promising to obey the Church. She was given a light sentence and ordered to dress as a woman, which she did.

The English commanders were furious. It was essential for them to have the Church condemn Joan for witchcraft so that they could execute her and be able to claim that Charles owed his coronation to the power of the devil not God. They hoped that her execution as a witch would provide a blow to the new found confidence of the French troops and cure the fear and fatalism of the English.

Joan was imprisoned. One night, Joan's clothes were removed, and in the morning she had to dress in male attire. Cauchon rushed to her cell and sentenced her for disobeying the Church. Thus, providing the English with the excuse that they needed to burn her as a heretic and a witch. It was the in thing back in the day.

After Joan's death Rouen was captured by the French in 1449, and the Pope ordered an investigation into the trial. In 1456 Cauchon's sentence was declared null and void.

Imagine that. Bishop Cauchon acted within the political interests of the English and himself, and not within the scope of the Catholic Church, It just goes to show you how sinful man can be when he holds his allegiance to Caesar, and not God.

I'm sure Cauchon is hanging out somewhere in the great abyss with Mohammed.

---

Solved at last: the burning mystery of Joan of Arc

France's favourite saint was martyred by her English foes, who ordered her remains to be cast into the Seine. Now scientists believe they have established the facts surrounding her execution.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/dec/17/france.alexduvalsmith

 

Since you march to the beat of your own drum and are not Catholic, I don't expect you to understand. You're too busy doing the devil's work.

 

The classic statement of one who is of dead religious works...i.e. "if you dont believe exactly as I do, then you're of the Devil"....how very sad. Joan,..you just bolstered the arguments of those who would question some of your denomination's beliefs..

And, BTW, 'my drum' is the total of scripture, untainted by men's doctrine or dogma. I'm not brainwashed by the interpretations of mere 'men!'

 

People will continue to question the Church as they have for over two thousand plus years. No biggie.

Sorry, my friend, but you don't have all the answers.

 

I do apologise I thought you were an atheist, but your an agnostic.
So if you do not know if God exists or not why are you so anti-Catholic?. What is the big fascination about the Catholic religion for?
And this thread could be regarding majority of Churches yet you purposely put in the word Catholic.
Jesus often used analogies and symbolism and was referred to the good shepherd. We are the flock we recieve instruction from the Church. I notice you seem have particular hatred for the Catholic Church, tell me what particular teachingS do you disagree with?.

 

No, you are not brainwashed, nor neither are we. We recieve instruction, teaching, and guidance from the Church Jesus established. Were as you take the Bible (which by the way was compiled by the Church) and take from it what you like. You are your own personal Pope, you give yourself ultimate authority on how to interpret the Bible, so therefore you will automatically interpret it to fit with your own personal theology.
If the Bible is your sole authority who had the authority to compile it?.

 

See previous post http://www.politicalforum.com/religion/254233-being-catholic-means-taking-your-lumps-6.html#post1061398803 which addresses your questions & retort.

 

You searched nonsense to find "truth?" God(*)(*)(*)(*)ed brilliant!!!

 

You know, when I was a kid , someone told me , when confronted by 2-3 other boys in playground , to always tackle the big one first. (joke -wink))


Perhaps god exists on the other hand , perhaps NOT. After the usual early school type Bible lessons , later as an adult I took a closer look and after quite a few years of more reading, , I found it tiresome + concluded book to be a mixture of fact + fiction, MORE fiction than facts, then went to reading more interesting books .


If you're content at being a sheep +-part of a flock , good luck , but not me, I try making my own - "god-given" -( LOL) mind up on such matters as I go along , a bit of a freethinker. I cant get my head around the general Christian (Catholic + non-Cath ) concept of a diety i.e. having a son with a mortal mother . Sound too much as if the story was plagiarised from the Greek god Zeus seducing Semele (mortal) she becoming pregnant , then having a beautiful baby god who grew up to become - the good Lord Dionysus.

It would be hypocrital of me to pretend believing mortal Jesus was son of God - also alleged to creator of the Universe. Makes no sense to me .

Hatred ? Nah! - its just that more horrible deeds have been committed by Catholics ,often under the Church's influence, than by any other Christian denomination I've heard of.


cheers.

 

Don't you think that he was perhaps in a different league from the child-botherers?

 

L O L - Cough-Cough.

 

That's because you're the only one that cares about it, I'm afraid. So you don't like the metaphor? So what. How does that disprove Catholicism? This isn't could to convince anyone of anything; you're preaching to your choir.

 

Actually, both species are fully Christ's body, blood, soul, and divinity. To receive one is to receive the other for all spiritual and sacramental purposes. You say it's a falsehood, but that's the doctrine. The only reason to receive both would be the symbolism of it. The reason we don't is that it tends to be impractical and/or unsanitary to distribute the Blood amongst the congregation.

Meanwhile, the protestants you praise usually think the whole thing is symbolic and that they're just drinking grape juice anyway.

 

Well, more blood has been spilt in the name of democracy, liberty, and patriotism than all religions in history put together, so if that's your calculus, you should expend your energy attacking democracy, liberty, and patriotism.

 

Exactly..I rest my case..man's doctrine prevailing in the Communion of 'do this in "remembrance" of Me....not being Me, having bodily resurrected into heaven at the Ascension. It's such a sad thing that men have bought into..an example of the futility of men's minds altho many well intentioned., I'm sure...


The historical Romanist church has a history of holy relics, holy water, holy bones of dead saints, etc. And so they carried that worship to the communion bread..it really is that simple.

 

As a reminder, two things which divide men, religion and politics.

 

You don't make any argument to refute the teachings. Why should I not assume your stated doctrines are "man's doctrines"?

 

If ignorance is bliss; then denial is the answer to all w/o refute. One often believes what they want to believe, as well as what they were taught....I was taught Catholicism, but managed to go beyond the brain washing of men unto reading the scriptures for myself, w/o the tainting of man's dogma & doctrine...

BTW: Worship or honoring relics is not taught in the NT scriptures..

 

You still haven't given an argument why I should accept whatever you tell me. So what if honoring relics isn't taught in the New Testament? Since when is sola scriptura taught in the New Testament? For that matter, on what basis do you accept the New Testament as authoritative? Perhaps the Bible is just "man's doctrines," too.

 

I doubt that. IMO it was only in the last 2-3 centuries that names "democracy -liberty + patriotism " came in general use by the masses , before that it was a christians duty to save the souls of the heathens - if the "heathens " native in pagan lands, i.e. Nth + Sth Americas /Africa etc. resisted , they were slaughtered en masse , all in the name of Jesus , mainly by Catholics.
IN Europe , it was Catholic Church who ordered the mass execution of break away - Protestors for heresy . It was Catholic Crusaders who launched the worse atrocities against Non-Christians on their way to + throughout the "Holy" Land., How else do you think it maintained a dominant position and the largest "flock" in Christendom " ?


Not All religions , IMO - you might be correct abt the Abrahamic derivative trio , but should really exclude Jainism - Sikhism - Buddhism Zoroastrianism + Hinduism , etc for starters. .

btw - Adolf + many members of his gang , were Catholics and the Pope kept silent while 6 million Jews was slaughtered.


,,,




Tata....

 

When a man hears the true Gospel is it his choice to follow it or not. And as is said by the scriptures that they are witnesses of themselves, "All scripture is profitable for instruction, reproof, etc. of righteousness." And the follower is instructed, "Study to show yourselves approved of God, as a workman not ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth,"

Following 'other' man's interpretation rather than you own, makes you a slave to him and subject to his spirit in the meaning of the interpretation...Priests for years kept the faithful ignorant of the scriptures, as also having been in Latin (called by the reformists, "a foreign tongue'); and even now, you must go thru a priest to correctly interpret them. You are in bondage to an organization with a failed track record as well as in the bondage to mortal men who you must go thru for the forgiveness on your sins...how very, very sad!

Bottom line: You are enslaved to other men...

 

Actually, imperialism was driven mainly by a quest of riches and national glory, i.e. patriotism. Manifest Destiny was patriotism. The scramble for Africa was patriotism. And also a desire to bring the fruits of post-Enlightenment civilization to the savages.

How much Christian territory should the Islamic armies have been allowed to conquer before the Christian turned around to fight them back? Anyway, what makes you think they were bloodier than, say, the War on Terror?

No, they weren't.

No, he didn't.




Tata....[/QUOTE]

 

You're just preaching from your pulpit. Your not presenting a reasoned argument for why I should buy any statement you make. Again, give me the logical basis on which you deign the Bible to be divinely authoritative.

 

Someone enquired why I'm anti-Catholic ,hmmm - well , perhaps its due to finding information like this :

... I'm afraid apart from the O.T. god commanding his chosen people to slaughter exterminate pagan Canaanites , Moabites , Jebusites , I've not yet come across any matching large scale slaughter committed in the name of any other religion .


btw - size matters - it makes a helluva difference .



.....

 

Men must choose what is their baseline. What is their faith built upon. The only thing common to all of the Christian denominations is scripture, passed on by the apostles & early fathers, and when mixed with faith, becomes the foundation of the Body of Christ. However, much of dogma & doctrine is of men and not supported by the common scriptures..and so should be questioned and/or rejected as such. Too much of Catholicism is traditions of men and not of the recorded word, and becomes therefore invalid, and "not of God,' but of men.

I cant make you believe, that is your choice...is your faith in God via the H. Spirit or in men and men's futile minds?? That's it in a nutshell....why do you or anyone believe as they do?!