Atheism is/is not a religion

No, it doesn't. Does not believing in the Hindu gods require that they exist?

Not believing in the Christian god, for example, is a reaction to the beliefs of Christians, just as not believing in the Hindu gods is a reaction to the beliefs of Hindus.

Personally, I don't agree that lacking a belief in a god or gods is a weakness at all. How weak do you consider your ideology about gods you don't believe in to be?

Dusty

 

Uh, that is EXACTLY what atheism is, not sure how that is a "weak" position.

 

it's not

american xtians are so desperate to believe their silliness they need to make atheists religious

 

Here is one of those broadbrush villifications I was talking about by this poster, that he claims is the exclusive purvue of his adversaries. It is blatant hypocrisy.

 

So rather than research, you have made a story up out of whole cloth and posited it as an argument?

Very compelling.

 

Atheism requires that the IDEA of a god has been forwarded. It does not require the truth of that idea. As has already been discussed, your disbelief in the ideas of the Islamic god or the unicorn do not depend on their actually existing, only that the idea that they exist has been posited.
Can you understand the distinction?

 

When you put it that way, I suppose that is somewhat accurate. Maybe that could be called negative faith.

But, it's not that I 100% believe there is definitely not a God. It's that I believe there is absolutely no reason to think there is based on the world as humanity currently knows it. My reasoning is based on my own life experiences, my perspectives, my observations, and my understanding of the world, of which science does play a part in providing. But, I absolutely can't say with any certainty that God does not exist. It's not because I'm trying to hedge my bets, it's because I honestly don't have proof that he does or doesn't, and I have trouble with absolute terms where nothing is absolute.

I've been told by various people across the years, usually on the internet, that I must not believe in God because I want to live an immoral life or because I don't want to be responsible for my actions. I consider that to be ridiculous, first off, because those people didn't even know me personally, and secondly, because morality doesn't even play into the equation for me, at least when it comes to whether I actually believe in a higher power. Truth be told, I've been moving towards atheism since before I was even a teenager. My father was raised Catholic and while he didn't try to raise me in a strict Catholic household, he did try to impart a belief in God on me and dragged me to church. My grandparents were very religious folks too, and we lived with them at the time. There was even a short period of time where I would read the bible to my family, and tell people I wanted to become a minister. My grandmother used to receive a little publication called Guideposts, which I would read, because I especially enjoyed a section in it called God's Mysterious Ways which were stories about how God had intervened in some way in people's lives.

There has not been a single event in my life that has driven me away from religion or God. I have no reason to be mad at God. I have not had a strikingly hard life compared to a lot of people, and there has been no traumatic event or profound loss in my life that led to my questioning and ultimately denying the existence of a God. It has simply never made sense to me, for as far back as I can remember, even when I was reading the bible. I've never been able to connect the dots in my head, to make it work, and to really believe, and I also never thought there was a point in forcing myself to believe or to say I did when I didn't.

I don't think religion is evil, I think people have used religion to commit evil acts just as much as it's been used for good. The bottom line for me is simple. People commit horrible acts, not religion. Religions are inanimate objects, abstract ideas, that don't have human traits like intentions. Those things come from people. And while I will fully admit I have been more than a little rude in the past when it comes to religion, it was not born from an innate problem I have with religion, it was born from a huge dislike for people using that religion. Surprisingly enough, being in this religious forum has helped shape my viewpoint a lot. Before I became a member here, I would have passing religious conversations with people, usually on a video game chatroom or at the bar, but nothing like the level of discourse that happens here. Seeing the back and forth between both sides, and the disrespect both sides show to each other, has kind of opened my eyes to the futility of insulting people in order to get them to believe in what you believe. It's pointless.

We've spoken about same-sex marriage, and that is one major issue for me, possibly the most major, when it comes to me having a problem with religious folks. Thereagain though, it's not the religion itself I have a problem with, it's the people who expect things to be done a certain way because of that religion. I don't give two craps about the ten commandments in a courthouse, God on our money and in the Pledge, prayers during government sessions, Christmas displays(I actually enjoy them), or any of the other trivial(to me) things that atheists and religious folks fight over. Prayer in schools is one issue I'm a little split on because I don't think it's the place of a public institution to show favoritism to any religion. I think the best solution there is simply a moment of silence in which the kids can either pray or not pray as they please. Kids have enough divisive stuff to deal with, I don't think it's a good idea to add religion to the mix.

I will admit that I've had a few chuckles reading about atheist lawsuits, but not because I thought they were necessary, but simply because I got a little guilty pleasure out of the religious folks getting their feathers ruffled when someone shoves their beliefs in their faces, which, lets admit, some religious folks do. Plus, I think it's good to have balance, but increasingly I'm seeing the debate produce more and more extremism and that's counter-productive for both sides, and for the country.

Nope, it's just an opinion. I have faith the sun will rise tomorrow but would you call that the same type of faith that you have in God? On that note, is there a difference between faith and hope? I think they are very similar, but I've also considered that there are probably religious folks out there who don't have faith in God, they have hope in God. Hope that he exists, because deep down, they aren't really convinced enough to actually give themselves over to devoted faith.

I think it's the same for the religious folks. It's really just respect that both sides want, at least the mature ones and not the bad apples who just like to cause trouble. There's not really a real need for atheists to attack religious folks and vice versa, it accomplishes nothing and just makes things worse in the long run. And what I see is disrespect from both sides, with religion having the upper hand simply because it is so entrenched in our culture. That's another reason you see atheists bringing lawsuits. Religion is the staus quo.

Atheists are not responsible for other atheists just like you're not responsible for other religious folks. But, if that is the case, why do you say things like "...at least a couple Christians..." thereby painting the picture that the bad apples on "your" side are few and far between, but yet I do not see you calling out the folks on this forum who get extreme about religion in the way that atheists get extreme. You barely acknowledge that behavior exists, but you insist atheists must police other atheists. I don't think that's hypocrisy, I think it's bias, and it's inherent to both sides.

Good, I think extremism should be called out on both sides, and I personally would condemn any atheist group that behaved the way those lunatics do.

On that note, where I rich man, I'd fully fund The Patriot Guard to do what they do. Look them up if you're not familiar with them.

I'm not sure, but I suppose I'm still not sure what the big deal about the FSM is in the first place. Is it the disrespect that bothers you? The logic of saying you believe in a flying spaghetti monster but not a religious God? I really don't think of it as much more than a silly internet meme that gets passed around on Facebook and those random internet picture websites.

 

Please. While I won't say that atheists don't take things too far, the FSM is hardly a vicious and extreme attack on religious folks. I've seen you say all manner of things about atheists, blanket statements, not making a point to call out only the bad ones. Nope. Just all atheists in one basket getting all your condemnation dumped on them. Exactly why do you think that you get to do that while condemning atheists for the same things? You can't just say something along the lines of "I'm doing it because they do it to me", because that's just BS, and that's the kind of thing we teach our kids not to do(two wrongs don't make a right). There's nothing wrong with defending religion from atheists, but if you're going to do the exact same thing back to them that they do to you, you bequeath any moral highground you may have had, and you and the atheists you condemn are just two little pigs wrestling in the mud.

I am not responsible for the behavior of other atheists. Or, if I am responsible for those people simply because we have a similar mindset when it comes to a belief in a deity, then you and all Christians are just as responsible for all the bad that has occurred in the name of religion. That's a dumb position to have, because obviously you had nothing to do with that stuff, and neither do I, or the other atheists who aren't actually doing it.

There's no difference between that and someone saying "If you don't believe in God you're going to Hell" which I've heard quite a few times growing up and living in rural Pennsylvania. Religious folks just have nicer ways of insulting you by saying things like "Oh he's lost his way, he's turned from the lord" or "He has Satan in his heart" and those types of things. Same idea, same thought, just nicer less confrontational language. It's either all BS or none of it is, but you don't get to have it both ways.

I would probably laugh at the ridiculousness of it, just like I do the FSM, because it IS ridiculous. Now, if Christians, or atheists, were calling for violence or some type of negative ACTION, then I would object, no matter which side was doing it.

I would have the same problem with that as I do when atheists make blanket statements about religious folks. If the shirt said "Some atheists are....", I'd be fine with it because it would be truthful and not a blanket attack.

Yes, I do. You act as if religious folks never attack atheists, or that when they do, they are condemned by other religious folks for doing it. Instead, they are very likely celebrated and complimented, just like with atheists. When's the last time you condemned someone religious for attacking atheism unfairly and rudely?

I still don't get why the FSM is so insulting to you. Are you insulted by Zeus and Jupiter too?

No, I said I had never known that the abbreviation FSM stood for flying spaghetti monster, because I've seen the abbreviation quite a bit more than I've seen the actual name. I have seen it around, and I had a vague understanding of what it was, but I was not aware that it was the source of serious insult to religious folks.

Because the evidence for God is entirely interpretation, speculation, and filling in the blanks. If there was actual evidence for God, you wouldn't need to have faith in him.

Yet it can neither be proved or disproved putting it squarely in the same category as all the other religious ideas of God. Sure, I know it's a joke, and I know it's an attempt to ruffle feathers, but if someone decided to seriously have faith in it, or something similar, you're in no position to discredit their faith anymore than I am yours. My advice to you and those of you offended by a picture of a blob with squiggly lines is to get a sense of humor. Afterall, all of us atheists are going to hell if you're right anyway, won't that be punishment enough?

It is not my religious symbol because I am not religious.

Malicious perhaps, but not illogical. But if you're claiming the FSM is shoved in religious people's faces left and right, how about all the religious symbols that are pretty much everywhere. Churches, courthouses. Hell I can't even go to a hotel without finding a bible. Now, like I said in a previous reply here, I really don't care about the symbology. Religious symbols do not offend me. But, you can't deny that religion is shoved in people's faces all the time, it's just the atheists who take issue with it. You're upset about a crude sketch but atheists aren't allowed to be upset about all of that?

And neither do religious folks, and if you need any proof of that, go to any popular website comments section, like Yahoo or Youtube, or go to any of the stories that Drudgereport links about religion and read the comments section there. There are more religious people insulting atheists than there are ever atheists insulting religious people. Either way, it's stupid, because no one is going to insult someone into not believing what they believe. It just doesn't work.

 

So, basically, you are admitting that atheism is nothing but nihilism after earlier denying it.

What is atheism? Who the hells knows. Wait, what are the Christians saying about it? OK then, its theopposite of whatever they say.

Certainly a strongly intellectual opinion ...

 

Imagine how absurd it would be to do as certain theists here and claim that you're going to kill people in the name of atheism. People would tear that argument apart on the simple grounds that there are no atheistic tenets or dogmas. Ideologies are what prove deadly, not a lack of ideology.

 

When Christians claim that it's a religious belief of some sort, then that is quite obviously false.

But atheism is NOT nihilism, because:

Most commonly, nihilism is presented in the form of existential nihilism which argues that life is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value.
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism

--

Atheism is not a belief, it's not a doctrine. It's simply a rejection of God/gods. A non-belief..

 

to swensson ::::

i agree that atheists belioeve in atheism. i have met atheists who believe that they can save their "soul" by being atheists. it is difficult to explain, but many atheists believe in nature. it is only a question of vocabulary.

vlad

 

Nope, we woud just remind you of the Paris Communes. And yes, atheists are already preaching what sub-human dorks all religious people are, and we have one Crusading in the name of atheism right here on this forum.

So what you say is impossible, is already happening.

 

I suggest you read it again, because that is EXACTLY what atheism is saying: argues that life is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value.

When you are an atheist and you die, that is it. there is no God, there is no purpose, there is nothing after, and we are just a happy collection of atoms and cells that happened to form cogent life by pure happenstance and statistical brewha.

Ergo, every other religion on earth is crap (however illogical the analysis) - it all flows from the nihilistic base you deny - when you want to.

 

I'm not sure how atheism being a reaction to claims about God has ANYTHING to do with nihilism. In fact, I know it doesn't. Neutral, do you honestly know what nihilism is?

 

Of course there is a meaning in life and this for us as for all the other animals is the survival of our species.
But because we are also big brained apes who think and create complex societies we straggle for the betterment of ourselves and those around us , now if we succeed even to the minimum death comes when our purpose is fulfilled and even if we completely fail we serve as paradigm to the others "don't be like this person" .

We are promoting reason not atheism , atheism is not a belief it is the practice of questioning everything , researching , accepting or rejecting.
I was a regular in Sunday schools for years and i come from a very religious Greek Orthodox family , i didn't woke up one day as an atheist but i became after reading , researching and using reason .

 

Hey, I'm sure there are plenty of nihilists who are also atheists, but that doesn't make atheism the same thing as nihilism.

 

Life could have a purpose without a god existing. Life could have an intrisic value without a god existing. There could be some form of afterlife without a god existing.

You are (yet again) mixing up what many atheists say with what the word atheism actually means. Nothing I say or do defines atheism. It's meaning remains constant.

 

Do you?

Or are you going to use the standarda atheist trick of picking and choosing defintions and overtly avoiding the ones that clearly apply to situations?

As you did when you blew off three of four defintions of religion.

Are you attempting to debate, or merely be ... contrarian and avoid 'losing' at all cost?

Because if you deliberately have no idea what I am talking about, and are insinuating that your opponent is too stupid to know what he is talking about .... then I am going to hazard a guess that you are still not ready to actually have a discussion about your precious, strocking is softly like a ring, religion.

 

One of my favorites

 

Could, but it's just a guess and a random emotional response to the purpose put before you. It could be that a mouse farted and created the universe, and our purpose is to breath in the risidual vapors until such time as the universe is cleansed and will then implode under the weight of mass without vapor? Not terribly likely though is it.

And, quite frankly purpose leads to God doesn't it. We know, thanks to modern science, that the universe was created. The Why? Well, that predisposes a creative force does it not?

Otherwise, exactly as charged, your life is just a random selection of accidental molecules, that will eventually unravel in organization and return to a state of utter nothingness. Well, if that floats your boat, so be it.

When the revealed purpose from the Creator is mentioned and seems to make more sense than farting mouses, well, I guess since science cannot help answer that question ... what does atheism do? It comes up with a non-specific, generalized, excuse that does not answer the question of purpose. Indeed, based on its view of the universe, atheism cannot even begin to answer the question.

And Yes Joe, when you say and do does define atheism (which is odd because another atheist is telling me it is ONLY what he or she signs up for it to be). Because when atheists are all saying the same things? Yep, that is atheism.

 

Yep mine too. SHows how utterly vaccuous atheists are these days. Tell me, does not stamp collecting ...er, collect funds? Publkish material? Recruit? Dessiminate bad propoganda? Haunt religion forums, genrally behaving badly? Does not stamp collecting mean you belittle and insult stamp collecting, often by mistaking it for digging in a beach ..?

Nah, I am sure they are analogous because the propoganda, generated from an atheist web site originally, sounds pithy - pithy enough to ignore the reality of atheism.

 

Atheism will be extinct long before religion/faith. In fact we are living in the last year of atheism's blight on humanity. It is a sad thing that the vast majority of atheists will serve the beast that religions around the world have warned of for thousands of years.

Very ironic indeed. Oh well I chalk it up to bitterness, that is how the atheist lives, bitter, it is also how they will die.

 

It's an honest answer to say the least, that isn't trying to imply meaning and intent when there is no evidence of such not based on subjective interpretation of ancient texts and the belief that the source of what those texts contained is divine, simply because they say so.

Which is fine. I would prefer it if religions, and for that matter, everyone, did not try to fill in the blanks with whatever sounds good just to avoid having a blank. It's okay to not have the slightest idea why the universe exists, because right now it's entirely unknowable. I also see nothing wrong with coming up with ideas on how it happened, and why, as religion does. It's when the arrogance of followers of said religion(or atheism too) begin touting their own story on what happened as objective fact, or pretty close to it, without proof. Guesses are fine, but it's important to remember that guesses are unproven and unsubstantiated, which means, as Incorporeal put it in my thread, that anybody imagining the origins of the universe without fact to base it on is "living in a fantasy world". Right now, that pretty much means everyone, because science can only speculate on the origins, and religion was never concerned with evidential proof to begin with.

 

Not sure why you think this is the last year, but it's worth noting that polling does not agree with your analysis. In fact, atheism is growing and religious followers are shrinking.

http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2012/08/14/american_atheists_1_in_20_americans_say_they_are_atheists_.html