Does the truth matter anymore?

Trim spending?

 

The wealth will trickle down will come when Romney gives Businesses certainty, so that they can start spending the trillions they have saved in reserve.

 

I agree it is optimistic, but OTOH, over the past three years, the US has significantly increased production and decreased use. Amazingly, the US is 83% self sufficient, and only imports 17% of its energy needs. So to cut oil imports in have we only need to get that figure up about 9 percentage point.

Creating a million more manufacturing jobs and doubling exports sounds more speculative. We need more demand to create more jobs, giving out more tax cuts isn't going to do a lot of good IMO. Businesses already have trillions of dollars they are sitting on.

 

You figure the Walton family are going to suddenly give their workers nice big raises?

 

Ummm.. Well since this question goes way the hell back, which empire? Early in the West is Egypt, then Greece, then Rome, then forget the East, but either way, truth is in the name of the winner... that's all, there are no lies so long as you win... Yup, that means all of Europe failed, they lost, every territory they ever had... GONE! Wait, who did that, oh right America!!!!! So all foreign dogs, stay away...

 

Yes. Spending levels are proportionatel at the highest levels since WWII. Some of it will come down as the economy continues to improve. But we could save about $300 billion a year if military spending were cut back to 2000 proportionate levels. IMO SS and even mediare should be income tested. We don't need to be and can't affort to be paying the Warren Buffets the dole. We also will need a single payor or Govt run health care option eventually. An insurance based system is simply too expensive to provide coverage for all Americans.

 

IMO, we all owe a debt of gratitude to Obama and Geithner and Bernanke and Paulson and Bush, for taking agressive, forceful action to intervene quickly and avert would could very well have been a truly horrendous economic disaster had the entire financial system shut down and imploded. And Bush maybe ever more than the others, because he had the courage to stand up to his own party to do the right thing.

Why is it a failing system in your view?

 

The problem we have now are not low wages, but unemployment. Walmart pays minimum wage, which is enough for the lower classes to scrape by, and survive. So Romney will create more jobs, for the lower classes, does not matter if their low wage jobs.

Remember, lower class Americans aren't starving, they have TV's, and Cable, unlike Africans, so they don't need big raises, to pay for cinemax, that's an immoral channel filled with nudity, un christian..

 

Considering the overall factors that Obama (or anyone else) was facing... there has to be some allowance for 'error'. The guy before Obama surely didn't do as well. And Romney is going to call everything "okay"... if a select FEW of his buddies (within the 53% he imagines) stay wealthy.

The rest of us (47%'s) will have to pull ourselves up by our non-existent 'bootstraps'.

Obama 2012!!

 

Not to Romney or Ryan.
Those two are serial liars and they are counting on the rest of the country being as utterly stupid as their base is.

 

Amen!!

 

Serial lying is paramount to the republican election process. Whether it's BS claims of "weapons of mass destruction", or "Romney never outsourced jobs", or "God loves money"...it's all the same right wing BS, and the right wing rich base thrives on BSing themselves and one another as they raise their champagne glasses and brag about their portfolios. Romney and Ryan highlight this mental sickness perfectly. Too bad they're going to lose in November despite all their cash purchases and double speak.

 

Loving this democrat vs republican banter. The media and washington have you all right where they want you; polarized and passionately defending your party of choice while they rape us all through corporate welfare and other means. Have fun kids.

 

It's part of the process, within American dialogue. So be it.

Some of the people see clearly enough to make their own decisions. Some buy into the BS. Most of us argue about these things as we see fit. If you think everyone but yourself and those who think as you do are brainwashed or controlled by the media... you've likely bought into some slick programing yourself.

 

I just see an extraordinary amount of regurgitated misinformation from right and left wing media.

 

What makes you think you have the mental capacity to be the final arbiter of what is and isn't misinformation?

 

We have higher unemployment because of lower production. We have lower production because of lower demand. We have lower demand because the middle class has lower income.

Henry Ford paid his workers unheard of wages. Did that mean lower profits for him in the short term? Sure. But he knew that by increasing the incomes of the middle class, he was creating a market for his products and growth for the economy overall.

That lesson has been lost on many today.

How will Romney create more jobs? I thought you cons take the position the Govt cannot create jobs.

Pagan heathens obviously deserve their squalor.

 

Yes, that is sensible.

I think prosperity here, has been traded by the most wealthy for the profit they will gain in "emerging" markets. There is ZERO economic patriotism with these guys; it isn't about the U.S.A and the well-being of its people. Romney and the like prove that by going for any/every tax shelter they can; even if they have to park their money offshore.

It has been pushed aside, for the sake of embracing greed.

Translation: Certain die-hard racists didn't want the "Black" President to be successful at anything; and they FAILED at that. Obama is clearly one of the most capable and accomplished Presidents this nation has ever had. Too bad that his PAINT JOB caused some to literally lose their minds.

LOL! There are always those who overlook the clear fact that we are ALL in this TOGETHER. Some people will erect a WALL at the first sight of some social difference. It's sad... and it is unfortunately human.

 

The obama claims about creating jobs are LIES. Go to BLS. com and look at the job totals by month since 2008. Obama only talks about the jobs created, not the jobs lost or the NET job stats.

They are lying to you, and you are buying it. There are fewer people working today than when obama took office. All of his radical spending has resulted in a net job loss and 6 trillion in new debt. Why would anyone want to give him 4 more years to continue the destruction of our economy?

 

Iriemon, just two comments. Firstly, what a company can do in a strong and growing economy is not always comparable to what one can do in poor and shrinking economy. That should be pretty straightforward.

Secondly, Presidents don't create jobs in the private sector. Businesses do that. I'm not suggesting that I buy in to the concept entirely but the concept is to remove anti business sentiment and activities in the government to help business recover, grow and then create jobs. There is no question at all that the current administration is anti-business. That just doesn't help. Romney may not help either but removing an impediment to growth can't hurt. You can believe whatever you like about that but I think it is a fair description of the concept.

 

I think a big part of the problem is that over the past 15 years we have changed our tax code so that investments are taxed at less than half the rate as earned income. Invesments are taxed at a maximum of 15% (if you hold for a period of time) and real estate investments have all kinds of tax favored benefits.

So is it any surprise we've seen more an more energy and talent going to finance and investment banking as opposed to production and earning?

Is it any surprise we've had too massive and devastating asset bubbles in the past 12 years?

Reagan's 1986 tax code had investments taxed at the same rate as earned income. His rate was too low and caused huge deficits, but he had the right idea of not having the tax code favor one type of income over the other.

IMO we need to go back to Reagan's way and set investment taxes to be the same as earned income taxes.

 

You're completely wrong. The BLS numbers indeed show that 4.6 million new, additional, net gain in private sector jobs since Jan 2010. I posted the links earlier in the thread, but here it is again:

Total Private sector jobs
Jan 2009: 110.985 million
Jan 2010: 106.800 million
Aug 2012: 111.400 million

http://www.bls.gov/webapps/legacy/cesbtab1.htm

You've been lied to by the right wing propaganda media and you are buying it. There are more people working in the private sector today than when Obama took office. Your conclusions are based upon the false information you've been given and believed.

Consider getting your information from more reliable sources if you want more accurate information upon which to make decisions.

 

Sure, because generally in a strong economy there is growing demand for products and services.

Despite many trillions of dollars sitting in business accounts and the offshore bank accounts of the 1%ers, what we are missing in the growing demand for products and services.

IMO the so-called anti-business sentiment is a fabrication of the right wing media. Obama has passed hundreds of billions of tax cuts for businesses and people and all kinds of things to encourage growth.

The simple fact is, if there is no demand for products and services the business produce, they will not produce it. And if there is demand, they will. That is simple, basic economics.

Now, I agree that it is better for demand to come from the private sector, because in general the private sector is more efficient in allocating resources to goods and services people need and want. But we are not getting strong growth in demand from spending, in large part, IMO, because the middle class is tapped out for reasons I've explained in this thread.

But I disagree the Govt cannot play a roll in this. When you have a situation where there is too much income and wealth going to capital which is sitting in offshore accounts not doing anything, and so there is not enough spending and demand, the Govt can stimuluate spending and thus demand and thus more production in different ways.

The Govt can raise raise taxes on the groups and folks who have the income and capital that is sitting idle, effectively taking some of that money out of idle offshore or bank accounts were it is not doing much. Then the govt can either 1) transfer it to people who will actually spend it, or 2) directly spend it itself on things like infrastructure projects, which directly create jobs and spending.

If you just spend without raising taxes, that would work too, but we've had irresponsible fiscal management for most of the past 30 years starting in 1981, and unfortunately we are in the situation where we simply cannot continue to borrow a trillion dollars more every year.

 

Thats false.

Demand is high, its just being filled with products produced in China.

Ask walmart if you dont believe me.

 

If spending were high, we'd have stronger GDP.

I don't need to ask Walmart. We can look at trade data and see that imports from China are not substantially higher than they've been in previous years, and that they make upon less than 2% of gross domestic production.

So despite the noise you hear on your right wing propaganda outlet and internet videos, a very small portion of spending goes to China.