That's true. Lots of liberal arts grads go to law school. Thirty years ago it was the thing to do because there were opportunities available everywhere for lawyers. Now, however, half of recent law school grads will never find a job practicing law. They spent all that money to attend law school, and there are no jobs for them. Only people at the top of their classes graduating from top tier law schools have any chance of getting a job as a lawyer, and even then, we genereally pay them less than we paid starting lawyers a few years ago. The market is so bad for them that they have no choice but to accept. And this is the cream of the cream of law school graduates.
So, all these folks are voting against their own best interest? That doesn't sound very indicative of highly intelligent, educated people.
Having a steady job doesn't make you educated, but it means you're at least a little financially responsible. The problem I see with education is that it is easily threatened by stupidity. Stupidity is often more appealing, and everyone has it in some measure to start with. Education means developing critical thinking skills and learning moderation, learning to accept not knowing everything with certainty, that the world is in fact a large, complex place. Who's going to figure these things out without traveling and/or attending a university? Of course, it doesn't help matters much that education is getting too expensive for anyone not of the 1% to afford.. We should have more higher education, not less, in times such as these, because our economy is shifting towards a non-industrial one where cognitive skills are increasingly vital to both the individual and to our national well-being.
funding for science comes from two major sources. corporations and government. Corporations are interested only in the bottom line, the government is not. For the funding that comes from the government, one political party is far more likely to give out grant money than the other. As an intelligent person I'm sure you can guess which one.
so you're saying relying on science/evidence is a political ideology? most of the people i see here in mississippi are voting against their own best interest of course, i'm assuming they vote for who they say vote for it's not indicative of highly intelligent, educated people that's too bad, i hope you did better later on that's only half true, but i have sold wine to bevmo, a long time ago
Yeah I absolutely love physics. I'm not a big fan of chemistry but I'm getting through it. Thank you, by the way.
No? I'm not following you. My point is that scientists (the truly smart people who vote democrat) prefer government grant money because it allows them to do what they love without the pressure of doing it for profit. The "smart" democrats who actually believe in liberalism are your soft science majors.....which means they arn't as smart as you're trying to make them out to be. The best of the best scientists work for corporations and i would love to see how they vote.
Private college is about 30k per year... public about 15k. Beyond the expectations for the costs to rise dramatically... right now, if you go to a private college, you are down 120k... and your starting salary is 40k avg. Maybe sometime in that 10 years they would like a house and a newer car... Right there, you have an indentured servant, spouting the liberal mantra, for the rest of your conceivable life. After 10 years at your job... paying 12k per year... which is almost a third of your salary before taxes to start... you are on the tit. At a public college, you are at 60k... and again... that is just now... chances are your salary is in the low to median range... so 6k per year... a motorcycle a year... gets you clear in 10... and you are still nowhere near 100k... many half that. Or, you can work those 4 years in a field of interest to you, and when the student hits the marketplace you already have 4 years experience, while you were making money... 5 years experience is equivalent to most employers with a 4 year degree... so one more year of earning money you are spending for four... is a compelling argument. Now the college student will come out more well rounded, having studied things they didn't care about because credits are designed to do just that... and they will have a higher salary cap, generally speaking... but lets average that over 14 years of sacrifice to get that degree... Where did Jobs and Gates get their degrees? Zuckerberg?
Red states also take more federal money than blue states. ironic huh? Red states - conservative states - are less educated and rely on nanny government more than liberal states. Gotta love it.
it looks to me like you insinuated that because i wanted to see a survey i'm a socialist your logic here is faulty and you're not showing any evidence of the correlation where do you get this from, your imagination? it's too bad you don't seem to understand the difference between opinion and fact
You're not very bright. I said sociologist, not socialist. The "science" of sociology is based on surveys, which is why I said that. learn to read.
I don't know where you go to school, but D is right, you are mixing facts with imagination, and always with a political filter.
i must have misread it, i work while i read through these threads; but i think i made it clear i'm not a sociologist and it's not only sociology that relies on surveys/science/evidence i'll wager i've read way more than you here's a partial list i posted to myspace years ago the moor's last sigh (rushdie) the strange life of ivan osokin (ouspensky) far from the madding crowd (hardy) the castle (kafka) the golden bough (frazer) nostromo (conrad) the brothers karamazov (dostoyevsky) lords and the new creatures (morrison) dead souls (gogol) the wild ass' skin (balzac) pride and prejudice (austen) silas marner (eliot) vanity fair (thackery) germinal (zola) botany of desire (pollan) zen, and the art of motorcycle maintenance (pursig) beneath the wheel (hesse) the rainbow (dh lawrence) the moviegoer (percy) the sun also rises (hemingway) pygmalion (shaw) the divine milieu(*)(teilhard de chardin) madame bovary (flaubert) journey to the end of the night (céline) our lady of the flowers (genet) the sheltering sky (bowles) being and nothingness (sartre) barchester towers (trollope) of human bondage (maugham) iron in the soul (sartre) journey to ixtlan: the lessons of don juan (castaneda) beyond the chains of illusion (fromm) the great domains of burgundy (norman) blue trout and black truffles (wechsberg) anna karenina (tolstoy) fathers and sons (turgenev) the counterfeiters (gide) the red and the black (stendhal) swann's way (proust) the plague (camus) the queen of spades (pushkin) candide (voltaire) memoirs of a geisha (golden) on photography (sontag) ulysses (joyce) on the road (kerouac) runaway horses (mishima) catcher in the rye (salinger) bonfire of the vanities (wolfe) purity of heart is to will one thing (kierkegaard) the second sex (beauvoir) the drunken boat (rimbaud) les fleurs du mal (baudelaire) the doors of perception (huxley) a year in provence (mayle) truth is a pathless land (krishnamurti) the screwtape letters (cs lewis) utopia (more) down and out in paris and london (orwell) lolita (nabokov) the end of the road (barth) thus spake zarathustra (nietzsche) tortilla flat (steinbeck) la maison de rendez-vous (robbe-grillet) a spy in the house of love (nin) ship of fools (porter) the gulag archipelago (solzhenitsyn) bartleby (melville) the bell jar (plath) tropic of cancer (miller) stranger in a strange land (heinlein) waiting for the barbarians (coetzee) ironweed (kennedy) working (terkel) howl (ginsberg) wealth of nations (smith) the art of eating (mfk fisher) the unbearable lightness of being (kundera) les misérables (hugo) cien sonetos de amor (neruda) idylls of the king (tennyson) one hundred years of solitude (garcia) nature (emerson) miss julie (strindberg) tom jones (fielding) the interpretation of dreams (freud) the feminine mystique (friedan) the artist's way (cameron) leaves of grass (whitman) complete poems (e e cummings) secret life of salvador (dalí) the voyage of the beagle (darwin) cybernetics (wiener) bleak house (dickens) fahrenheit 451 (bradbury) life against death (brown) naked lunch (burroughs) critique of pure reason (kant) future shock (toffler) angels in america (kushner) man's fate (malraux) call of the wild (london) rubaiyat (omar khayyam) in it what's in it (rumi) the golden ass (apuleius) metamorphoses (ovid) the fountainhead (rand) ode to psyche (keats) the theatre and its double (artaud) an actor prepares (stanislavski) an anthropologist at work (mead) an inquiry into meaning and truth (russell) the new york trilogy (auster) the family of man (steichen) the magic barrel (malamud) mystics and zen masters (merton) tractatus logico-philosophicus (wittgenstein) the crucible (miller) silverado squatters (stevenson) phaedrus (plato) juliette (sade) walden (thoreau) wealth of nations (smith) one flew over the cuckoo's nest (kesey) the experience of meditation (shear) free to choose (friedman) prospects of money (keynes) empires of trust (madden) lust for life (stone) thérèse (mauriac) man and his symbols (jung) the jungle (sinclair) an american tragedy (dreiser) letters to a young poet (rilke) billy budd (melville) dr zhivago (pasternak) still life with woodpecker (robbins) the circle game (atwood) ponder heart (welty) dead and gone (harris) timbuktu (auster) never cry wolf (mowat) obviously this doesn't include textbooks or required reading for my degrees
Take more money? Really? Sure they do. Why? Agricultural payments for one. Yeah that (*)(*)(*)(*) farm bill. Loss of manufacturing and jobs supporting it means less state revenue and more federal monies. I think we should really break this down. Who gets the most federal money and why. I have seen the charts but I also understand the why behind much of it. Do you?
No you must be wrong! Impossible. the economists and politicians assured us that high tech jobs would come! The service sector would take over!! Wait it did. McD just upgraded their drive thru computer systems and hired thousands part time, no benefits for eight bucks and hour! YAY!!!
So many dolt comments on this thread from posters. Do you guys not want an internet infrastructure? Or bridges? Or have the US lead in science topics? It's posts like these that make us lose our leadership position in science related fields. A lot of research and ideas come from schools and universities. This brain washing thing is just stupid and against the point of education. Those are exceptions, not the rule. How many Bills Gates are there? For every successful business there are about vast more failures. It's how business works. Your other point about loans and debt is fair, and I think education is too costly. But that is a different subject matter. Oh and remember Zuckerberg made Facebook at a university with the help of fellow students, he gained a lot of his skills at a university, he quit after learning those skills...so that's a stupid point. Without some of those connections of his peers Facebook would not have happened either. Bill Gates went to Harvard school as well and learned programming skills there, he quit because a business opportunity came up. So another stupid point. If anything they refute your point, they went to universities to acquire some or many of these skills. Do you really think some average joe out of highschool can become a leading engineer for some architectural firm making bridges? Or a software development company? I work as a programmer and yeah there are guys that learn a lot in high school or on their own. But those are exceptions. Most need a structured education to get those skills. In my experience hard skill jobs (engineering, science related, medicine ) you need some level of higher education.
Well medicine... sure. They are not so much the exceptions actually... This is interesting... www.forbes.com/2003/07/28/cx_dd_0728mondaymatch.html Richest self-made Americans with a degree: Warren Buffett University of Nebraska Lincoln, Bachelor of Arts/Science; Columbia, MBA Net worth: $36 billion Source: Berkshire Hathaway (nyse: BRK.a - news - people ) Steven Ballmer Harvard University, Bachelor of Arts/Science; Stanford University, MBA, dropout Net worth: $11.9 billion Source: Microsoft John Kluge Columbia University, Bachelor of Arts/Science Net worth: $10.5 billion Source: Metromedia Richest self-made Americans without a college degree: William H. Gates III Harvard University, dropout Net worth: $43 billion Source: Microsoft (nasdaq: MSFT - news - people ) Paul Allen Washington State University, dropout Net worth: $21 billion Source: Microsoft; Charter Communications (nasdaq: CHTR - news - people ) Larry Ellison University of Illinois, dropout Net worth: $15.2 billion Oracle (nasdaq: ORCL - news - people ) Michael Dell University of Texas Austin, dropout Net worth: $11.2 billion Dell (nasdaq: DELL - news - people ) Average net worth of a Forbes 400 member with a college degree: $2.13 billion Average net worth of a Forbes 400 member without college degree: $2.27 billion Average income for full-time year-round workers with high-school degree, 1997 to 1999: $30,400 4 years of that vs 4 years not only not making that, but borrowing it... I would take $120,000 +4 years experience... if I had it to do over again... would have only made me more money. Yes I would expect a microbiologist to hold degrees... there are certain positions of course at least one college degree is a pre-requisite. I am not suggesting that college is a bad idea... it is great on a number of levels... I am just saying the average college graduate demonstrates that they can keep their heads above water and stay someplace for 4 years... which works out well for starting positions... but then the person who started working in the same field, has a 4 year relationship with a dedicated learning path for which that graduate learned some to a lot. If you are smart, your education has nothing to do with that you know... it is an issue of aptitude... and drive. I definitely had my eyes opened to things I would not likely otherwise have entertained in college, but my career has nothing to do with my college education. The limited IT at the time I went to college, esp at a college I could afford, would have been like coming from Mexico and majoring in Spanish. It didn't make sense to me at the time. If you can afford it, by all means go... but if you are just trying to do well... choose what you are good at, and do it as well as you can, because in 4 years, someone with a degree is going to pop out... and your boss probably has a degree. However you and that graduate will start with a $210,000-$240,000 (average) financial disparity.
This is the insecurity I was talking about. You want to prove you're smarter than conservatives, I show you a little of your own failure, and you post a wall of text trying to prove it once again. chortle. There's smart people in both parties. The highly educated voting democrat does not mean democrats are more intelligent.
I know plenty of well educated republicans in blue states. They are well outnumbered by welfare idiot democrats.
People are educated in the wrong way, all education is adjusted to the system, in advantage for the system. If people knew about tyranny (and how it is used via ideology, invisible for most people), they wouldn't vote at all in historical times likes this one, because voting is exactly how this system is going to take over (via the power of the people) Democrat, republican or TP, or any other party or political current, in all cases people give up their power to rulers (politicians and president are big problem, look what politics/elections have done to this world over last hundred years)
