The young flee Israel because it is a ‘failure’ and xenophobic theocracy

and MAY GLORY BE IN OUR GOOD LORD DIONYSUS -



HIC !

....

 

100,000 Former Soviet Jews
In Israel Return To Russia

http://rense.com/general65/100000formersovietjews.htm



One million Russians have arrived in Israel since 1990, making them the country's largest group of immigrants, but poor employment prospects and the fear of terrorism has led to many deciding to return home---

---

Disillusioned

By contrast Israel faces high unemployment and a stagnant economy.

Irena is also nervous about suicide bomb attacks, and worries about her son in the army. When he finishes his military service she plans to go back to Russia.

"I do not know why the government encouraged us to emigrate in the first place," she said.

"They promised us a beautiful future, but life here is pretty tough, and they should have warned us about that."




Vita Martinova, a journalist for the Russian language weekly Novosti Nedeli, said: "Russians want to be more prosperous. They want more money, better cars and good jobs.

"Now they are finding that Russia offers better opportunities for them."

A study released this year says that at least 50,000 Russians returned from Israel from 2001 to 2003.

According to Eliezer Feldman, a sociologist in Tel Aviv, there are three distinct categories of new Israeli citizens returning to Russia and the former Soviet Union.

In the first group there are people like Irena who had great expectations but were disappointed.

If they were lucky enough to find work, their larger earnings in Israel were wiped out by the higher costs of living there.
So they return to the relative security of a low-rent apartment in a provincial town in Russia or one of the ex-Soviet republics.

Global potential

The second group said Feldman is made up of people who saw Israel as a stepping-stone to a third country.

Refused access to America, Canada or other Western countries and unable to adjust to life in Israel, these people often end up back home.



Sasha Danilov, who has been successful in Israel, belongs to the third group of people leaving the country.

He arrived aged 18 from St Petersburg with nothing but a guitar and one small suitcase. At first he worked nights in the airport as a porter and studied during the day.

Seven years later he had his own hi-tech consultancy firm. Now though he has closed his Tel Aviv office because he and his girlfriend are off to Novosibirsk.

Sasha sees Siberia as his exit strategy from Israel's economic crisis. "There is huge potential there and I am hoping to sell Israeli technology to new markets. I want to act as a bridge between the two countries."


Positive discrimination

Sasha is just one of a new breed of Russian speaking Israelis with Western know-how and a globalised outlook who are in high demand across the former Soviet Union.

Anton Nosik is another. He said he simply outgrew the Israeli market and went back to Moscow in 1997 to open several internet news sites.

"In Russia there are more than 14 million internet users compared to just 2.2 million in Israel.

"Israel is a beautiful country but it feels parochial. And if you have not gone to the right school or university it is hard to get promoted beyond a certain level," he said.

I am deeply unhappy with this trend because I think we are losing some of our best and brightest people


Yuri Shtern, one of the 12 Russian members of the Knesset, recognises the problem and said Russians are under represented in Israel's public sector.

He wants to bring in a positive discrimination law to put more Russians in the top jobs.


People from the former Soviet Union are still coming to Israel but they tend to be far less educated than the Russians who are leaving.

Moreover only one third of the latest wave of immigrants is Jewish according to religious law. Under the Law of Return anyone with a Jewish grandparent may seek Israeli citizenship


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/crossing_continents/4038859.stm

The only certainty in life , is change . (wink)


....

 

Read the whole article and you learn Jews made up 2% of the population in 2003 and 2% today, and are simply moving within France.

"CSA has conducted many other polls on religious issues since then, but has never entirely replicated its 1994 methodology. Still, according to its 2003 survey, 2% of French adults aged 18-24 years identified as Jewish, a figure that would tend to confirm that “the audience” of Judaism was then larger than what it is routinely assumed to be. As for the 2013 CSA survey, it provides figures with similar implications: 2% of the French say they are “strongly interested” in Judaism, and an additional 16% say they are “somewhat” interested; whereas 82% are “not interested.”"

http://pjmedia.com/blog/exodus-migration-of-jews-out-of-france-begins/

 

Well.... I think that's true... but also think it was true before 'free internet' came into being.

Major TV News outlets have had a decline, at least since the 1980s. And the percentage of people who read the news papers every single day, have been declining since the 1970s.


This decline in major news outlets, has been fairly consistent, much longer than the internet has existed.

Now some of it, is the media's fault. Even before Fox News existed, the media was heavily biased, and has only gotten worse over time. The only real difference in the past, was that they pretended to be unbiased. Now they are openly biased.

Didn't NBC recently, openly say that it was ok for Obama to use drones to kill Americans without due process, because they trust Obama. But if someone else did that (read Bush), then they would have a huge issue. So "our guy" can violate constitutional rights, but "their guy" can not because that's wrong.

They said this. On air. On TV. Then you want to act shocked the people are more interested in Tabloids, than major news outlets?

Now I also believe that part of the problem is with the public itself. Do you really think that the average joe blow on the street has time, or interest, to look up the history of international trade, and protectionism? Seriously? Do you think the average citizen cares about the fundamentals of the minimum wage, or any other economic factors in the economy, enough to do detailed research on it?

A few years back, I read a book on economics, which I found to be very interesting, and how the regulation and control of the economy affected various aspects of work, and trade, and so on. So I mentioned this to one person, and they said something to the effect of "cool... so last night so and so got kicked off the island"... I remember having this 'click' moment, where I realized this is the answer. This is why we are where we are.

This is the inherent problem with Democracy, which is why we were not supposed to be a Democracy. The founding fathers of America knew that the average joe blow citizen on the street isn't going to know enough about all the issues to make a wise choice. This is why you have leaders that build a following based on empty slogans "Hope and Change", and "Yes we can!"

The other problem that the public has, is that we have completely lost our value system, and our political choices show that. Back in the 50s, we had GI Joe, the American hero fighting the evils in the world. You had Buzz Aldrin landing on the moon. You had politicians who stood up against tyranny. Our heros were people who did good and great feats. People wanted to be doctors, and scientists, and benefit our fellow man.

But during the cultural revolution, 60s, 70s, and 80s, we completely changed who we were, and what we stood for. G-d is dead, and we live for self now. Our heros were Michael Jordan. What's he do? He plays. Now we have kids who waste their lives on video games. Morals don't exist, and it's only wrong if you are caught. We stopped worshiping G-d, and started worshiping actors, and players, and "reality TV stars", who have video of themselves having sex released to the public. Now that's a rare skills....

We've essentially become ancient Rome. Bread and circuses. Instead of lions and gladiators, we have football stadiums. Instead of bread, we have Obama Care or Unemployment Comp, or Medicaid, or Section 8 Housing.

And then you are shocked that people are more interested in Tabloids, than major news outlets?

Does not surprise me in the least. I'm sure if I was this informed in the 1970s, I would predicted it.

 

"Jews flee".

Why must it always be so dramatic?

 

This thread is stupid, it only shows Arab hatred and stupidity.
While Millions of Muslims are illegaly entering Europe and escaping Sh!!ty life in their Arab countries, few Israelis travel
to improve their economic situation... So ???
Ya Arabs , Your hatred and frustration will not help you.

 

Your slow remark is probably alluding or in reference to majestic Poland and the lowly kingdom of the UK where intelligent people still genuflect and kiss the queen's ring.... hmmmmmm

 

Things cost money and nothing is free. This is hardly news. Your comment shows that you completely missed the point I was making. Second, since I never claimed Cuba is an "icon of liberty" your assertion is a strawman. That aside, the point I alluded to - which seemingly went completely over your head - is that notions such as liberty and freedom are abstract and hence highly contentious concepts and therefore, by extension, prone to subjective framed terms' of reference leading to a high probability that the conclusions of studies like this in terms of rankings are heavily skewed and politically and ideologically-motivated. Did the terms of reference include factors such as free at the point of delivery access to healthcare and higher education which many reasonably regard as fundamental human rights? It's these factors that are often overlooked when evaluating nations' records on human rights and liberties. There are many other contextual issues which are often overlooked that I haven't got time to go into now.

 

Human rights in Cuba are under the scrutiny of Human Rights Watch, who accuse the Cuban government of systematic human rights abuses, including torture, arbitrary imprisonment, unfair trials, and extrajudicial execution.

But they have access to education though so they can get smart enough to build rubber rafts to attempt to escape. Fools, they didn't know that despite the poverty, torture, repression of human rights they had access to free at the point of delivery health care to fix those broken limbs and burned body parts.

 

Your childish sarcasm aside, HRW doesn't take political and other contextual issues into account which is particularly relevant to Cuba. Flawed methodology leads to flawed conclusions. To anybody who has either visited Cuba for any length of time or knows people who have lived there for many years (as I have), the notion that it is considered one of the worst human rights offenders in the world, is a complete joke.

 

Human Rights Watch in Israel.


Human Rights in Israel/Palestine



Israel

Israeli authorities demolished homes and property under discriminatory policies in the Israeli Negev and the West Bank, and harassed non-violent protesters and built unlawful settlements in occupied territory. Unlawful Israeli attacks in Gaza killed dozens of civilians, and the Israeli blockade, which Egypt tacitly supported, harmed Gaza’s economy.

Palestine

In the West Bank, the Fatah-led Palestinian Authority carried out arbitrary detentions and allegedly tortured detainees. In Gaza, Hamas committed similar violations, as well as executions after unfair trials. Armed groups in Gaza launched indiscriminate rockets into Israel, killing civilians, and summarily executed Palestinians accused of spying for Israel.




Israel: New Unlawful West Bank Demolitions


Israeli military forces should cease actions in a West Bank Bedouin community that were apparently intended to displace the residents without lawful justification. The military demolished all homes in the community on September 16, 2013, and blocked four attempts by humanitarian groups to provide shelters, with soldiers using force against residents, humanitarian workers, and foreign diplomats on September 20.

More.............

http://www.hrw.org/middle-eastn-africa/israel-palestine

 

http://www.commondreams.org/further/2013/10/23-2

Adelson Wants To Teach Iran A Lesson By Nuking It, But Only the Rattlesnakes

by Abby Zimet


Ugh. Bellicose squawking from a right-wing cabal of Zionists gathered at Yeshiva Unversity this week, one in a series, for a panel lugubriously titled "Will Jews Exist? Iran, Assimilation and the Threat to Israel and Jewish Survival,” at which participants bemoaned the BDS movement and the world's ganging up on poor, innocent, democratic Israel. Much time was given to Sheldon Adelson, the 80-year-old casino mogul and billionaire supporter of Israel, Republicans and hawkish think tanks, who declared that the Palestinians are not a people and the way to handle Iran is not to negotiate but to drop an atomic bomb on it that "doesn’t hurt a soul," because the way to teach them they can't have nuclear weapons is to use our own nuclear weapons against them. Most disheartening, his appalling ignorance was rewarded with applause, and no argument, from anyone else present at the event. How dangerous is this kind of crap? Let us count the ways. Giving Adelson this kind of platform is bad enough, but allowing his twisted fear-and-war-mongering to go virtually unchallenged is even worse. From one commentator: "The greatest threat facing contemporary Jews (is) the fusion of Judaism with Zionism, and the association of Jews in the mind of the world with the policies, attitudes and methods of the Israeli government and the Israel lobby.



.... more ....




Small wonder why there is universal mistrust for the hate filled, warmongering, and intolerant Zionist state.

 

This has been happening for decades.

A friend of mine has a wife who defected from Israel many years ago. She was a medic in its military but became disgusted with her country's racist and abusive treatment of Palestinians. Therefore, she fled to the USA. Thousands more have done this but the controlled right wing media refuses to report it.

- - - Updated - - -

Had there been genuine democratic elections in Israel this would have happened years ago and Israel would have been a real democracy. The ultimate result: PEACE. But this is something the profiteering warmongers don't want.

 

there are thousands of Israelis living illegally in NYC metro area and many more thinking of leaving:



Bye, the beloved country - why almost 40 percent of Israelis are thinking of emigrating
According to a new survey, more than a third of Israelis would leave the country if they could, citing economic opportunities as the main reason. Who are the wannabe leavers, and what can be done to induce them to stay?


http://www.haaretz.com/news/feature...s-are-thinking-of-emigrating.premium-1.484945


Israel's forum apologists are living in a state of denial but the facts are there.

 

Israel provides health care to its citizens based on the money it gets from the USA every year. All told, that money constitutes a huge part of Israel's GDP.

Not so strangely, the political right wing hates health care reform in the USA but loves to see our dollars provide help to Israelis. That's about as stupid as it gets for these delusionals.

 

I suppose that Freedom Watch, Amnesty international, Reporters Without Borders and the IRC who are not even permitted to visit prisoners as well as those who are even further repressed such as homosexuals and political dissidents find it funny as well.

Say, in the resort you stayed at did the happy satisfied bartender you quizzed bother to mention that this 'free at the point of delivery' heath care, like in any prison, is compulsory meaning that if the state finds amputation more expedient than treatment it will do so without you or your spouse's consultation or consent. But unlike any normal jail, you can get sentenced to time in the hole for talking about leaving or critiquing the government which would have a lot lot to do with visitors having sunshine blown up their behind by resort staff.

 

what if the majority in that country didn't want a so called separation of church and state.
"seperatists" are lying history changing delusional angry people.

 

We have American's who attempted to join the other side as well.

We kill them.

AboveAlpha

 

You have to be careful when you claim to speak for others or take articles and extrapolate from them your own political agenda that those articles do not necessarily prove.

You are taking an article and projecting your preconceived anti Zionist political views and imposing them onto what you read.

Take a step back for a second.

You have never actually spoken to the people who left Israel and why. Don't claim you know what they think or that you speak for them.

I can tell you because I do speak with young Israelis, many leave to explore new opportunities and why not? Israel is a small country. You probably would not understand that not having been there. Its a tiny nation. A young person interested in seeing as much as they can and taking in new experiences would feel confined in Israel. Its tiny. You can cross the country by car in minutes let alone hours.

Israel is highly competitive. To get into universities and find jobs is very difficult. Then you are in the reserve from 18 to 65 and do compulsory service and many end up on the West Bank.

No its not an easy life. Taxes are high, finding an apartment and job and paying rent is not easy. No one said being Israeli is easy.

Israelis are tough on one another as well. They drive crazy, are pushy in lines and they spare no mercy if you say something they think is
dumb. Its a highly self critical society that is not afraid to debate anything.

Israel is no utopia for Jews and no one said it did. It is also illogical to suggest its the same country envisioned by the original Zionists. Of course its not. Countries change. All countries. No country is stagnant.

So I am not sure what your post was about other then to try paint a picture Israelis are bailing out on the country because they are anti Zionist.

No these are young people who need to get out. Its good for the country they leave, engage in opening themselves up to the world and getting different cultural, religious, political perspectives that they can bring back to Israel.

No you do not want the young, the future of your country remaining stagnant and shut away from the rest of the world. Of course not.

Its a good thing young Israelis go out into the world and study overseas or live overseas.

You have no idea what a young Israeli has to deal with. Its hard enough going from childhood to adulthood realizing in Israel that means necessarily you will have to be a soldier, knowing necessarily at anytime you could be called up and be at war or there could be a terrorist attack. You have no idea what it is like to grow up Israeli sensing most of the world hates you simply because you want to live in a Jewish state.

Israelis go overseas and travel and so they should. You want to read into that a political agenda you can. Some like to exploit the fears, anxieties, genuine concerns of the young as if they are a scathing indictment of the country these young come from.

As one responder said, no of course not-the young travel, the young question, the young challenge, the young search. Its what the young do and should do. When I was 16-19 I travelled as much as I could. It was from that travel I realized how good I had it in Canada and how I took things for granted like geographic space,fresh water, trees, peace, etc.

Those young will learn and many will bring their ideas back. Please do not exploit the hopes and aspirations of the young for your own political agenda. Speak for yourself. Let the young explore, express doubts, challenge, look for new ideas without contaminating their process.

I myself work with others who try encourage Arab and Israeli alike to travel out of the region so they can encounter others as well as themselves in environments removed from the conflict zones so they can see each other in a different light and break stereotypes of each other.

You want to label all those young Israelis as anti Zionist, I call you on it. I just call them young people exploring what life has to offer. In that sense I admire them. I think all of us should remain young at heart and keep open to exploring new ideas and cultures.

 

Well first off, historically, Castro when he came into power, turned on the very people who put him in power, and slaughtered them. Further, many people who have fled Cuba, have said the government has been far more brutal in the past than they are today.

For various reasons, possibly relating to the fact Castro is gone from power, the government has been far more relaxed than in times past.

The most obvious reason is that the governments horrible economic socialist policies having ruined the economy into impoverishment, has turned to tourism as a source of foriegn revenue, which keeps the weak government going.

Of course, tourists don't like to be brutalized. Thus the government has had no choice but to relax it's grip on society, in order to keep the tourist revenue flowing.

So I think most people who are up to date on Cuba, do all agree that today the Cuban government is far more mellow than in times past.

However, it's not like they are good. I can walk down the street with a sign saying "Down with Obama", and start a new political party "US Reformist Party", and no one will do anything to stop me. Try something like that in Cuba. See what happens to ya.

 

Unfortunately, I think the anti-jewish movement around the world is so over hyped in trying to tear down Israel, that they would lock onto anything to support their views.

If there was a story about a 5 year old flicking a rubber band in Israel, they would extrapolate that the racists Zionists were trying to keep all Arabs down under a barrage of rubber bands.

These anti-jewish people are crazy.

 

Israel is such a small country that inevitable many young people almost have to leave in order for more opportunities. Many,if not most,come back.

 

Because I am Canadian I can go to Cuba and have. There are two sides to the story and I will relate it to this thread. On one side is the fact that Cuba assures a high standard of education and medicine for all and its schooling system is good.

On the other hand yes, other than tourism it has a failed economy but why? There is no doubt its economic models based on Soviet type communism failed. However it also failed because of American embargoes that to this day prevent things like aspirin, toothpaste, milk, shampoo, soap, from getting in which only serves to make people hate the US not want to aspire to be American.

Was Castro brutal? He claims he was at times and regrets he was and has explained he felt he did this to protect the masses from brutality and exploitation. So on the one hand he would concede he was politically brutal with some, on the other hand there are plenty of stories as to how he lived a simple life and genuinely respected the masses. This is not someone who surrounded himself in affluence as say the Soviet communist elite did. His people never turned on him and it was possible to do that. In a country that size someone Cuban could have killed him. Don't under-estimate the respect he earned by living the values he preached. No one saw him living like a fat man in affluence. They saw a man who came from a relatively wealthy family and chose a basic plan life.

All I am saying is there are two sides to the Castro revolution, one good, one bad. If you measure Cuba as poor in American cultural terms yes it is. No it does not have flashy cars and any fancy electronics. On the other hand it has music, art, literature, architecture rich in culture. do by whose terms is such wealth measured. Is the only way to measure wealth by the size of your house or type of car you drive?

I have been in very modest towns with no luxury, but the homes were clean if not sparse and the musical equipment was ancient and rusting but the sound of calypso-jazz as rich as it gets. No fancy food but the beer was just fine and the rum well then...

Here is what I found interesting. Yes every neighbourhood has its snitches who watch your political step. But they do not involve themselves in your sex life and who your partners although if you are gay they don't like that and you keep it hidden.

Youd on't see crime like you see here. Children are not being molested like in the US.

One thing you do not see in the small villages in the homes are rats or roaches. Simple homes yes, but clean. People have no fancy dental equipment and suffer from toothaches and have to have their teeth pulled but on the other hand, there is no scurvy. People eat. Not what you would call gourmet food but no one is starving.

Where unfortunately it has broken down is in the tourist zones. Prostitution has resurfaced and the government gets a take in every prostitutes business and believe me you sleep with a prostitute, the government knows who you slept with and could use it against you if you are a tourist but with its own kind, the Cubans don't pimp themselves to each other. I am generalizing. I defer to Cubans. Some left and have negative things to say, others do not. I know many cubans who come to Canada seeking work. They don't hate their country but they came seeking work and the ability to send money back home to dependent relatives.

Which brings us back to the original thread. Many Cubans have fled seeking material gains in the US they did not feel they would ever have in Cuba but others have stayed.

If Cuba was as bad as many said it was and is, believe me you would have had a hell of a lot more ball players in the US among other things. For a population its size and the lack of material wealth of most of its people and living in such close proximity to US material and wealth there has not been the kind of escape to the US as could be possible Most olympic athletes have refused to defect. The ones that have send money back home and stick in our minds, but they do not even come close to the ones who stay in numbers.

So why do some leave and others stay? Its not an easy question. Whether its Israel, Cuba or third or fourth world countries or even first or second world countries, people leave for these most common reasons:

1-environmental issues. i.e., earthquake, flooding, desertification, lack of water, famine, disease
2-lack of work and basic security, i.e., shelter, food, closely related to 1;
3-civil war or political turmoil, closely related to 1 and 2.

A brain drain has always existed where the academic elite head to the US or Europe for education with few returning meaning their countries have no future as they lack sufficient academics, doctors, etc., to lead them and build a future.

Heck in Canada we can't get doctors to go work in the North. Towns and cities sponsor medical students and the students never return.

To generalize why people go in search of new opportunities is complex and it could be all 3 of the above or even simpler, the inherent
drive in so many of us to ask, is there more?

Israelis leave as do others to seek new ideas and opportunities and explore life. It is inevitable. Its called life.

 

That is abject nonsense based on bull(*)(*)(*)(*) and lies, under the Israeli's unwritten constitution all citizens have full and equal rights regardless of race, creed, or gender. Israel is a liberal and secular democracy.

 

Oh really you have? Tell me how long have you lived in Florida in the Tampa and Miami areas home to the largest Cuban refugee populations on the planet as I do and have? Your assertions that Cubans will not tell you that Castro is a brutal tyrant and that the Cuban regime is not a totalitarian dictatorship and flagrant violator of the most basic of human rights is laughable for anyone who actually knows a Cuban refugee, as I actually do and which you obviously do not.