Avg McDonald's employee wage: $7.73. Ave hourly wage of McDonald's CEO: $9,274

So you would prefer to live under communism. Can you point me to a communist country that you would prefer to live in over the capitalistic USA?

How does McD "collude" with the government? How does it engage in thievery from you?

Why should it be treated different from any other company and McD does not decide what the government states is the poverty level, which is a false number on it's face, nor to send those employees tax dollars. None of that has to do with the value of the job being performed by the employee.

ROFL you believe government should control property and wealth and that would make us free?

And we could go back to making our own clothing, and blacksmithing our own pots and pans every making our own papyrus to write on too. Yes let's go back to the middle ages.

 

There are very strict laws governing exempt and non-exempt employees, you just can't simply not pay them overtime. In every company I worked for the shop and office people including the managers were ALL required to be paid overtime. Only the top executives and outside sales person were exempt.

 

This is a misunderstanding. I am a voluntaryist. I want to get rid of state benefits to corporations. Limited liability, subsidies, pro-corporate monetary policy, beneficial regulation, etc. I am a fan of business. I am not a fan of business when it colludes with the state to initiate force.

I'm sure there are valid criticisms of my view - being too leftist is not one of them.

 

No, wealth or the acquisition of financial wealth which can be translated to vast sums of property is inherently a property of greed. Just living is a function of greed. As living organisms we must TAKE to continue living. You take air to breath, you take "food" or life from other life forms to sustain yourself. All life known is parasitic in nature and hence ruled by greed to varying degrees. Anytime you engage in "wants" you dip yourself in the waters of greed. Each time you commit an egregious greedy act you create momentum that works as a feedback mechanism that propagates more greed. Greed is a very complex mechanism governed by Newtonian laws of motion. You cannot be wealthy and not be greedy. It is impossible, as the acquisition of wealth is inherently a selfish act regardless of the motivations behind the acquisition of wealth and power.

 

Ludicrous. I will prove it.

Is a person who acquired $5 of wealth "wealthy"?
What constitutes "wealthy"?
How much food does nature produce on its own for human consumption? The farmer? How is he a parasite? The guy who builds his trucks and makes farming more productive?

Your whole idea is based on this faulty notion there is a fixed pie of goods and services but there isn't. Both parties yo a transaction nearly always leave Richer. Anyway we will get to that later. First lets get back to how you are making a Marxist income inequality argument earlier.

 

Energy is not free. That farmer has to destroy plant life and take their energy to sustain himself. The question is how many plants do you think should be harvested or trees cut down to consider it "greed"? Greed is not some static immutable red line that is clearly present. It is ever present but in varying degrees of corruption. Organisms can live with varying degrees of corruption before they become consumed by greed. There is a point that is different for every person that greed begins to impart it's effects onto the host. One such example would be cheeseburgers. Eating 2 cheeseburgers a day may not make you obese but eating more and more certainly would. And like greed obesity corrupts the organism and the effects are readily visible to any observer.

 

The goal ought be based upon assuming the economy springs back and rises to where it would have been if 911 was not followed by 2008.

Consider that the GDP would have been $20 Trillion today, double the number for 2000 AD.
With this in mind, $15/hr would also be double the $7.50 Min Wage then, too.

But, we must raise to $15/hr slowly, with increments timed to the rise of prices gradually increasing without Sticker Shock that drives Consumer Spending down.
This might be a 5 year Plan.

That we raise the Min Wage means all wages go up is the important thing to remember.
The mandate by government direct intervention into this Depression is the only Tool available right now to spark more spending, increasing the GNP, opening up new jobs as the Demand rises, and supplying the additional income everyone will need and welcome so they can afford Obaminal Careless.

Make no mistaken bets, Obaminal Careless is bnot going away.
The major portion of the insured public will be buying policies in spite they are now crying the price is too high.
They MUST insure against financial losses on the homes and assets because of some outrageous illness that costs millions.

 

I don't think you know what parasitic means. Eating other organisms is not parasitic.

 

How much is the sun charging these days?

Do you mean "parasite" on earth or to the human race? He can cut down all he needs to meet the demands of customers as long as he owns it. As long as he is selling, that isnt greed. Would you prefer to eat today, or go grab your own food?

So, if you win the lotto tomorrow you are greedy all of a sudden? Or does that not count?

 

I do not think it is as simple as raising the minimum wage. If you want to combat poverty we must first combat inequality and identify what is a necessity in modern society. Even then, you must realize that life is based on a duality system of greed and generosity. There is no destroying greed it can only be managed into a stable stasis.

 

Yes greed will consume me if I win the lottery tomorrow. Why do you think the vast majority of lottery winners are broke and wish they had never won the money in the first place? Fortunately, I have contingency plans for winning the lottery and it has to do with not playing in the first place and if I did play, giving away the vast majority of money to a large portion of my community. The greed and money would consume me and permeate every facet of my life. I would only take what corruption I can personally.


How do you "own" another life form? Did god personally write you a writ of possession over all the earth? Or did you acquire your property from the laws of other men? The sun is one of the only known systems devoid of greed as the atoms come together by the force of gravity to fuse and freely release its energy. However, you did not ask that plant if you could steal the life it was freely given from the sun. That is the difference.

There are fundamental issues at work here that you are not engaging. It is not as simple as "He can cut down all he needs to meet the demands of customers as long as he owns it." There is a fundamental oneness to this universe an interconnectedness that binds all life together in a symbiotic dance of life and death, oblivion and eternity. We must focus on these issues individually and decide now what kind of species we are to become. When we become gods I fear we will not be able to reconcile our past transgressions against the lesser lifeforms. We are learning so much about life, purpose and the fundamental nature of the universe. I know you think it is a joke but IF this species makes it a little further down the road, big questions like practical immortality will have answers and new unique problems associated with such long lived beings that are fundamentally different from the rudimentary problems of the early 21st century.

 

My landlord told me the other day that to buy a McDonald's franchise a person needs $500,000 of liquid capital plus $500,000 to buy supplies, then earns about $150,000 per year running it.
If you have that much money already that's a big cut in annual income. Of course you can cut it by paying your employees more, but why should you. Would you volunteer for a huge paycut to own a McDonalds franchise just to work your way to peasantry while making poor unskilled workers solvent? (That is a better deed than founding a charity to help the poor, paying yourself a huge sal;ary and expenses to run the charity, then asking poor people to contribute like some do.)
Mcdonalds could cut the franchise fee, but why?

 

Combating the Depression is what I am talking about.

The poor will always be with you because it is a relative term.
If we want to get out of this Depression and also afford to buy Obaminal Care we MUST raise every working persons' salary so Consumer Spending increases Business (i.e.; GNP), and then jobs open up again.

 

Many in that position would prefer living in poverty and getting free stuff, vs living just above poverty and getting cut off. When you get free money for simply being an underachiever(CRAZY right), not getting it anymore can be quite the shock. .

 

Having a million dollars in the bank is NOT income.
At 1% interest you get $200/week Income from that million dollars.

By investing that million in a franchise, this guy earns $3000/wk

AND,... he did NOT spend the million, he has merely converted it into a business which still is worth a million dollars if he wants to sell it in the future.

His Labor Cost is 17% of the income from selling hamburgers.
If he and all hamburger joints everywhere MUST pay a Min Wage that is $10, they ALL will have to charge $1.50 for the Jr Hamburger.
He will NOT pay them more wages, WE WILL when we buy hamburgers

 

Any jobs that do not pay enough to make Welfare or phony SSI claims very, very, attractive works AGAINST society and the goal that men support their families and perform some economic purpose.

 

Most people have no concept of what being poor really is.

Here in the US, the poor have cell phones, Playstations and XBoxes, laptop computers and cars. Plus housing that has electricity, hot and cold running water, sewers, and cable TV. And most of "the poor" have vehicles.

I would love to show them some of the places in the world I have been, where such a lifestyle is almost undreamed of wealth.

 

Detroit.

 

I think you do not understand that without such legal protections our civilized would never have advanced as it has and we would all still be farming our little acres. I also fine what some mislable as "subsidies" are no more than normal business expenses deductions, NOT the government giving money to a company. And if our monetary policy is not geared at supporting business and growth of the economy what should it be geared for?

 

That's not communism, its socialism. Communism is a one-party fule and a big difference from socialism.

 

Don't confuse the 12 Economic System of Distribution with the 7 types of Political Systems.

Communism is a mandatory system of distributing products and services in accord with need, while requiring everyone to contribute t the economy in accord with ability.

The "mandatory" force can come from a political leader, like Stalin, or an Oligarchy as we see in China.
Even on the Kibbutz, in Israel, there was the leadership of democratically elected politicians who over saw the commune's economic system.

 

Hmm... well... how about if one were to set up an online "lifestyle-exchange" site, where people sign up, describe their circumstances and what they have, and offer to trade places with someone from another country?

You only get to take your cloths and personal momentos. You trade your living conditions (home and job etc.) for the living conditions of a person in another country. Governments shouldn't care, because it's a net-zero movement of capital, and a net-zero change in population.

If a bunch of people from both Detroit and Havana were to sign up, how many people from Havana would want to trade with a person from Detroit?

 

"Greed" is what has provided us with the standard of living we enjoy today and allowed people to be self-sufficient and able to act in their own best interest. If you want to combat "inequality" which I can think of no reason to "combat" it, you do so by growing the economy and getting everyone back to work. Policies sorely lacking in the current administration.

 

Originally Posted by Bluesguy View Post
So you would prefer to live under communism. Can you point me to a communist country that you would prefer to live in over the capitalistic USA?

How about no if's but one that you would prefer to live in today. We just had Thanksgiving, how did that communal living work out for the Pilgrims?

Lot's.

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No I'm speaking communism, communal living and communal wealth as was proposed. Which communist country would you prefer to live under as opposed the the USA?

 

Want to bet?

I bet you're pro-Israel... what do you know about Kibbutz?