Dumbing Down America: NYC Schools Cancel Gifted Program for Lack of Diversity

Running! Dodging! Dancing!

It is just nonsense. Accusations made from a position of failure and the anonymity of the internet.

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If you have something snarky to say about me, at least let your post have the maturity to say it to me. Otherwise, it it just school yard gossip.

 

"I think what we have here is a bunch of white bigots trying to use this as a chance to denigrate blacks and call others racists in order to justify their own bigotry."

Funny. I don't see any context or qualifying comments here at all leaving one with the impression that any opposition to this NY school's decision to end advanced curriculum so as not to offend black students as the work of bigots and racists!

Therefore weak disclaimers that declaring opponents of this move as bigots did not apply to those merely wanting higher academic standards is not backed up by the poster's own words.

 

I don't understand your line of nonsense here.

You have consistently accused me of doing things that are demonstrably false. Clearly again this is an inaccurate characterization of my posts in this thread. I never attacked any race.

 

Okay... this is the fourth try. You're being willfully ignorant, so I don't know why I'm bothering. I'm talking about Americans, yes Americans, of sub-Saharan descent who some right wingers on this thread are claiming should be segregated based on their supposed inferior intelligence. And yes, that's oppressive.

 

There are fundamental flaws with this opinion.

First and foremost the "curriculum" should be based upon the students as opposed to the students being based upon the curriculum.

Next is the fact that we can't measure "intelligence" as we don't even have a commonly accepted definition of what Human Intelligence actually is. We cannot measure that which we can't even define. That is a problem for many that refer to IQ tests because they don't actually measure Human Intelligence but instead measure the probability of the person to succeed or fail based upon our flawed educational systems (explained shortly).

Next is the fact that the criterian of "academic" accomplishment is also fundamentally flawed as we are, in fact, making a determination on how effective our teaching methods are as opposed to the ability of the student. If the teaching methods are good for a particular student they will score well on the tests but if the teaching methods for the student are inadequate or not suited for a particular student then they will do poorly on the test.

The teaching methods of the "50's and 70's" that is referred to as "traditional education" was basically founded upon rote memorization and "teaching to the test" which has been demonstrated to be a failure. Using the rote methodology of traditional education a person can score very well on a test but often lacks comprehension the material. We turned out a lot of people that were very good at passing tests but that also lacked significant comprehension of the materials we expected them to learn. That is why "traditional education" has been deemed to be a failure and the examples of this failure are virtually endless.

We cannot, nor should we, be intransient in holding onto institutions, beliefs, and methodologies that have been established as being inadaquate or prone to failure and such is the case when it comes to traditional education. Traditional education has been demonstrated to be deficient as it does not result in the comprehension of the course materials nor do it's metrics (i.e. test scores) reflect comprehension of the course materials. They merely measure the ability of the student's ability to "pass the test" as that was how they were developed.

Not only have we identified deficiencies of traditional education but have also developed new methodologies that overcome these deficiencies to a significant degree. Today we know that we should not try to force the student to fit into a very limited teaching methodology but instead we need to expand the methodology so that it fits the students. We know now that we can provide an educational methodology that accomodates multiple learning styles and that provide multiple pathways that ensure comprehension of the course material where actual "testing" isn't even required. The myopic mind raised upon a belief in "teaching to the test" rebels at the thought of "no tests" but when the methodology ensures comprehension the test becomes irrelevant.

Let me close with a rather unique anecdotal case study using my own personal experience. I experienced a unique educational situation because I attended a combined Jr High/Sr High school (grades 7-12) and I have this weird intuitive understanding of "math" and recognizing this I was placed in advanced (high school level) math classes starting in the 8th grade. Starting with Algebra I & II and Geomety I & II before entering "high school" in the 10th grade where I took Algebra III, Calculus, Trigonometry and Math Analysis. They taught me "equations" and that really taught me nothing because I can see math in my mind and the actual equations formulate themselves. I never opened a single book in any of these classes and once I was even "graded down" because the teacher told me I was using an equation we hadn't gotten to in the course material yet to answer a problem but I hadn't read the book at all and the advanced "formula" simply made more sense to me. I actually learned nothing from these classes because I could visualize the equations they were attempting to teach me. It was redundant and irrelevant to "math" from my personal perspective. Even today I don't "know the equations" but when addressing a mathmatical problem I simply formulate the equation to determine the answer; As I said it's really weird even for me and I can't explain it. In the end I really took 8 semesters of "math" courses that taught me nothing because they only taught me "equations" as opposed to expanding my inherent abstract understanding that is the foundation for mathmatical reasoning.

The irony of ironies was that when I completed all of the "advanced" math classes, because four of them were from my Jr High school years, I needed one more math class to graduate high school and ended up taking High School Math I in the 12th grade as it was a math class I hadn't taken.

The point is ultimately that even though I was placed in "advanced" math classes at an "early age" they were based upon traditional education methodologies and they failed me completely because I actually learned nothing from those classes although I received an "A" grade in all of them. Yes, I'm weird and it was a unique situation but it also inspired me to understand different teaching methodologies when my career actually took me in that direction (I was a technical instructor in aerospace for several years).

What I learned was that it isn't the student failing in our educational systems but instead that our educational systems are failing the students. Every studen, with only rare exceptions such as severe mental incapacity, can become very competent in literally any subject if the education methodology is changed and tailored to the student as opposed to requiring the student to comply with the education methodology.

 

So this isn't about what is best for the children we are trying to educate but some kind of payback to the Tea Party?

The left never fails to astound me in their priorities.

 

As a person who was in accelerated programs as a child and has taught children, who have been classified as gifted, I think we should make enrichment opportunities that are provided to gifted children available to any interested student.

 

Quote Originally Posted by Levon View Post
high IQ Whites are not reproducing at a replacement level........meanwhile low IQ blacks and Hispanics are reproducing at frightening rates.....

As ugly as it might seem are you denying it's veracity?

 

Because I deplore racial bigotry. I find racism to be about as morally and intellectually correct as the contents of my toilet bowl the morning after chili night.

 

What was snarky are you denying that is what you said when asked what if we just let it be colorblind and let the chips fall where they will?

Shall we review
Me>> So would you be OK if they keep the program and students apply according to their records and IQ test with all racial information redacted and admittance based only on intelligence and achievement scoring? Let's take race out of it and make it color blind and let the chips fall where they fall.

Quote Originally Posted by Think for myself View Post
I don't delve into hypothetical nonsense.

 

Not what I asked

Quote Originally Posted by Levon View Post
high IQ Whites are not reproducing at a replacement level........meanwhile low IQ blacks and Hispanics are reproducing at frightening rates.....

As ugly as it might seem are you denying it's veracity?

 

The right never fails to astound me in their lack of sense-of-irony, but hey, I've got a bridge over here...

 

Yes I don't understand the mindset that because one group of students cannot achieve these higher standards of education and master these more complex studies then another group cannot be offered them.

 

No one has said blacks SHOULD BE segregated. What has been said is that no student should be denied advance courses because of race, THAT's oppressive.

 

That has nothing to do with morality, so I guess you are agreeing with him?

Not to say that all conservatives are racist or any of that drivel, but the dynamic in the west right now is not too far from this:
One side says that the X aren't pulling their own weight, therefore, we should categorically discriminate against them.
Then the other side says, you can't categorically discriminate, therefore, X shouldn't have to pull their own weight.

So pick your poison, but at least one side has people with standards and where they do have racists, they are honest racists instead of condescending latent racists who will never admit to what they are really thinking.

 

Sorting by alleged intelligence differences is segregation.

I showed you a claim made by somebody from the right in this thread that races should be segregated based on intelligence. I'm not going to show it a fourth time.

 

Sorting by intelligence is the only way to move our society forward..........otherwise you are just dumbing down the next person who might discover a
cure for some disease, invent the next television, etc......not sorting by intelligence is a recipe for the next dark ages..........all so you can 'feel good' with political correctness. The American Psychological Association has acknowledged the differences in IQ between the races.....that doesn't mean that an exception to the rule black person should not be admitted to the advanced placement classes

 

You've just created a brilliant argument against college and graduate schools. I doubt anyone will be marching in your little parade though.
The whole world segregates itself through achievement of one sort or another.

Thank God! It's a very tiresome point with little bearing on this issue.

 

Lack of diversity! LOL!

 

Have a look at the quote above.

Once again, there's a claim from the right that black people are less intelligent and should be segregated in schools based on this lack of intelligence. I agree that it's tiresome. It's also more right-wing BS that you think you can get away with.

 

I am not saying that blacks should be segregated on purpose... however, it is well established that there are differences in the races and intelligence is one of them. I know that's not very politically correct and probably hurts your feelings but it's simply a fact. Just like it's simply a fact that on average blacks are more athletic than whites. Not racism, simply an observation of the facts.

There has been paper after paper done on this subject and people such as yourself refuse it because you don't like the implications... too bad.

 

BTW... how is this any different than 70 or 80% of the football and basketball team in most high schools being black? They only represent ~14% of the total population but make up the majority of the population of all football and basketball teams.

Aren't you segregating the children based upon athletic ability? So when it benefits black people to segregate them away from whites, that's okay. But not when it benefits white people?

I'd be willing to bet the HOUSE that the % of blacks in the "gifted programs" is FAR closer to an accurate distribution of black people within the population than the football and basketball teams represent. Wanna bet?

 

I see. So, what is to be done about this "problem"?

It was racist when Jimmy the Greek said it and it's still racist today.

While we're generalizing, this kind of racism would never come from a Democrat.


#rightwingracism

 

Really? That kind of racism would never come from a democrat Mr. Affirmative Action?

You do acknowledge that there are differences in the races... right?

 

?????? NO, it is your racist views that lead you to believe that segregating people by intelligence will lead to segregation by race.