Oh dear. The point wasn't causation, but refuting your dismissal of IQ when it is correlated with positive life achievements. Meaning, IQ averages for a group of people are very important as they show the likelihood the group will succeed.
The harm suffered can still exist for the decendants of the original criminal act. By analogy we have heavy metal water pollution here in WA from hardrock mining in the 19th Century that was conducted without government regulation that would have prevented this pollution today. The US government was fundamentally responsible because it allowed private individuals to create heavy metal water pollution that is making our water supply dangerous for people living today. The US government is financially liable for that pollution that is causing harm to Americans today because it allowed the pollution. The "plaintiff" and the "defendent" are still able to be addressed by litigation in court today. The same is true when we address many other issues. For example the wrongful taking of land from the Native-Americans by the US government happened over 100 years ago but the US government still exists and the current Native-Americans are still suffering the harm caused by the US government that violated their Inalienable Rights by it's actions. African-Americans today are still suffering harm from the oppression and discrimination that occurred to their ancestors. For almost 200 years there were colleges in the United States that didn't allow African-Americans to attend and that adversely effects African-Americans financially today. They ancestors were denied equality and could not advance economically and that, in turn, placed their current decendents in a disadvantages situation today. Of course economic discrimination and oppression of African-Americans, women, and Hispanics is still extensive in the United States today so they are suffering the same denial of economic equality that their ancestors faced. They basically started out "below the bar" based upon history and remain there today because of current discrimination and economic oppression. "Racism is gone" is a delusional belief typically held by conservatives. They somehow seem to believe that the Civil Rights Act of the 1960's ended individual racial prejudice and economic oppression of African-Americans but, in many respects, racial prejudice that results in racism is worse today than it was in the 1960's. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2012/10/27/poll-black-prejudice-america/1662067/ Overt racism has declined but that is because of the anti-discrimination laws. Prior to the Civil Rights Act an employer could openly state that the person didn't get the job because they were black but today that's against the law. We have merely changed from overt to covert racism in America. Additionally we can note that Blacks have made economic gains but that is overwhelmingly due to government hiring of African- Americans and not based upon private enterprise hiring of African-Americans where racism still prevails. Black have also seen an increase in political power and, in fact, in 2012 the voting rate for African-Americans was higher than for white Americans. What we've also seen are Republican states passing "voting laws" that disproportionately disenfranchise poor African-Americans that over-whelmingly vote for Democrats. These are the new Jim Crow voting laws of the 21st Century that specifically target African-American voters that don't vote for the regressive political agenda of the Republican Party. While I could cite the entire article I won't but will cite one more passage and recommend that others read it all. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/01/19/civil-rights-act-progress/4641967/
We should we be held accountable for actions of the past? Native Americans did not have rights and either did slaves I will challenge you to show where the government is discriminating against minorities today. I will also challenge you to show where We should be held accountable for the actions of 100 and 200 years ago. 99.999999% of us were not even alive 100 years ago and none of us 150-200 years ago. Never said racism is gone. I know there are individual racists. I will challenge you to show where racism is more extensive then in the 60's when racist laws existed in regards to the government and society as a whole. When do people start taking responsibility for their own lives and stop blaming others for their social and economic standing? Every American has the same opportunities as any other American to succeed. It is up to the individual to make it happen. We all start at a different economic level, but it is up to the individual to take charge and either accept it, or change it. It is not the governments responsibility to take care of every aspect of a person's life. The governments responsibility is to ensure equal treatment under law and ensure safety and security in their respective jurisdiction. An individual must take charge of their own life. I agree Great strides have been made in the public sector, but also the private sector has made gains too. More has to be done with education and encouraging people to take charge of their own lives. Not through government intervention and apologizing for something that happened under past administrations and before they were even born.
Proof and quantification of this is...where? I'm curious to know why you believe East Asians - specifically Japanese Americans (74% of whom were born in this country) - are not as 'discriminated' and oppressed as Hispanics. Where's your quantification for such glib claims? How do you face the fact that Japanese Americans have higher income and educational levels than Whites Americans?
So let's see, ignore the cited references, edit down the post to exclude them, and they ask "where the hell is the proof" of the discrimination? Seriously. Try doing you own damn research because obviously you choose to ignore the facts when they are presented in black and white for you to read. I've not claimed anything about "East Asians - specifically Japanese Americans" being discriminated against less than Hispanics but I've not read any evidence that they are. Do you have studies that establish that they are or are you simply presenting a rectal-cavity argument? What we do know is that WASP Males have never suffered discrimination based upon race, ethnic heritage, religion, national origin or other invidious criteria (except wealth where the wealthy almost always discriminate against and oppress the poor - and Republicans support this discrimination and oppression!!!) in the United States
It is certainly curious, then, that Japanese-Americans are doing better than WASP Americans. You, btw, merely infer 'micro-racism' against African Americans being the cause for the wealth gap and college graduation rates when the article makes no such case. My more likely explanation is that Blacks have an inherently lower IQ than Whites resulting in higher unemployment, lower wealth and education rates. I also didn't ask for proof of discrimination - merely for you to quantify your assertions. Are you sure you read my post? I'm taking for granted that Japanese Americans are discriminated more than White Americans, but they have higher social achievements than White Americans - refuting your correlation.
The only problem with your "explanation" is that the APA explicitly states that IQ tests do not measure general human intelligence so your "explanation" is based upon a false foundation. The tests were designed to measure future success rates based upon education and employment so of course there is correlation between an IQ test score and the actual results. The test wouldn't be very good if it didn't do that which it was designed to do. They were never created to measure actual human intelligence which is undefined and therefore unmeasureable. By analogy I can measure the compression ratio of an engine and get some idea about how well the car will perform on the road but it doesn't really tell me much about the car itself. It only measure one single aspect of the car related to one performance characteristic of the car. Quantification? Such as the fact that the official African-American unemployment rates (i.e. individuals that are qualified to work and previously held a job so they have "experience" related to the employment they seek, just like the official "white" unemployment rate) are significantly higher than the "white" unemployment rates? Or the fact that African-American are statistically more likely to be laid-off first during economic downturns for enterprise. Or that when all factors are equal except skin color a white person is 2.4-3.4 times more likely to be hired than a black person? Or the fact that a black person with an MBA (Masters degree in business adminstration, one of the most cherished college degrees) on the average is paid less than the average white person with any four-year (not five year) college degree? Is that the "quanitifying" documentation you want? If so then look it up because all of the above in documented on the internet. "Taking it for granted?" Seriously? So let's see, you make false assumptions disputed by experts and take things for granted because you don't do any research and you expect that to hold up under scrutiny? Sorry, take the time, do some research, and then get back to me. Here's a hint. Tyy comparing "white' Americans with the same educational levels of achievement with Japanese-Americans and see if you can find a study that shows that the Japanese-Americans are discriminated against in employment/compensation. I will provide an example of a study done between African-Americans and Whites where all factors were identical except skin color where the likelihood of employment (based upon a call-back for a second interview is highly indicative of probable employment) established the level of discrimination against Black in employment. http://www.epi.org/publication/webfeatures_snapshots_archive_09172003/ The problem for you is that I don't know if any studies have been conducted comparing Japanese-Americans and White-Americans so I don't know of any foundation for any claims or assumptions related to them. Lacking any studies such claims or assumptions lack foundation and are nothing but uninformed opinions..
Sure. IQ only correlates with criminality, life achievement, income, educational attainment, so on and so forth. That, of course, tells us nothing... Err, no. That wouldn't be quantification. Quantification would involve how much racism 'X' changes IQ 'Y'. So I shouldn't take for granted Japanese Americans experience more discrimination than White Americans? Or perhaps you just can't read? Been there, done that. The article also includes a call-back study from Australia: Perhaps Australia keeps records on race/ethnicity and income levels? http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/op...mericans-myth-reality-201312236385578609.html So please get back to me to show *how* Japanese Americans have higher earning and educational levels than White Americans.
You should correct that to IQ test scores and not just IQ because we don't have any means of testing a persons total "intelligent quotent" because we have yet to define human intelligence. IQ test address only very limited attributes of human intelligence and only for specific purposes. Social and economic oppression also "correlates with criminality, life achievement, income, educational attainment, so on and so forth." So yes. correlation itself doesn't tell us anything. Ah, like a lack of motivation that is caused by racial economic and social oppression lowers the average IQ test score by 15-20% type information? We already know that is true. We also know that anti-blace racial discrimination significantly reduces employment by roughly 1/2 and that wages for blacks only average 60% of those for whites with the same education and knowledge. Those kinds of quantification numbers? There out there, look them up. You can take for granted anything you want but you must also understand that assumptions are wrong much of the time. Do you enjoy being wrong that much or would you rather research a subject and present a supported opinion as opposed to an uninformed opinion? Your choice of course but don't be surprised when someone points at that an opinion you hold is contradicted by the facts. Of course I'm glad that you did some research on anti-Asian discrimination as that shows that it isn't just "taking something for granted" but instead you've taken the time to establish an informed opinion. So why don't you do that with African-Americans that earn as much as 40% less when compared to virtually identically qualified white males?
I take it you're perhaps unfamiliar with regression toward the mean for Whites and Blacks. Two families living in the same neighborhood - one White, the other Black - with the same IQ and background will have children whose IQ reflects the different averages of their respective races. The children of the Black couple with an IQ of 100 will have IQ's closer to 85 - the average IQ for Blacks; while the IQ of children of the White family - also 100 - will have an IQ closer to the average IQ for Whites - 100. To top the disparity off, IQ differences between racial groups are observable from an early age, such as three year old's taking IQ/general intelligence tests. The IQ differences - as well as head size - between the children of the White and Black families would be noticeable before the children attend school. I also have to break it to you, but twin and adoption studies show a low correlation between socio-economic background and IQ in adulthood; it is the reason that current psychologists estimate the heritability of IQ ranging between 50/50 - 80/20. It is perhaps the largest reason why East Asians have managed to refute your correlation which you avoid discussing when they experience more discrimination in the job market today - and significantly more racism and discrimination during previous decades. No; I'm not aware of that. I do know that your claims on motivation and intelligence testing were refuted the last time your tried to pass this claim off. Do you recall that East Asians averaged longer movement times than White than Black children even though their response times were shorter (making for an overall wash on timing) on IQ correlated reaction time tasks? http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.topic185351.files/Rushton-Jensen30years.pdf Why? East Asians earn less than identically qualified Whites but their incomes are far higher. I'm interested in the example which disproves your correlation.
Perhaps the best study was done related to adopted white children and black children adopted by white parents. In IQ test studies both the black and white children had comparable IQ test scores at age 5. By the time these children became teenages the IQ test scores of the black children dropped by 15-20 points when compared to the white children. This was puzzling at first until someone finally realized that at age 5 the black child was typically unaware of the racial discrimination they would face for their entire lives but by the time they were teenagers they became aware of that racial discrimination and lost "motiviation" to succeed knowing that regardless of personal achievement they would still be discriminated against. The 15-20 point difference based upon "motivation" had already been established by another study and it was the only explanation for the decline in the test scores. The child didn't magically become "stupid" but instead lost motivation because of social and economic oppression that they knew they could not overcome. As has been documented blacks have almost reached parity with whites when it comes to HS graduation rates but that has not translated into economic success. College graduation rates for blacks is up significantly but that has not translated into economic success. Wouldn't you be discouraged if your education didn't translate into economic success? Wouldn't you lose motivation when it came to taking a test that had no meaning for you personally? Why try to answer the questions to the best of your ability that takes longer when you can just check any answer and be dismissed to go play basketball? The IQ test has little meaning for the African-American because it does not foretell success for them so they don't try to do well on them. A lack of motivation, not a lack of intelligence, is the primary difference in the IQ test scores for African-Americans.
I'm not sure where to start with this post or how you think this addresses regression of the mean between Whites and Blacks. Why would Black and White *siblings* have different IQ averages for Black and White children with the same IQ? To which study are you referring? The Minnesota trans-racial adoption study shows significant differences in IQ between Blacks, Mulattoes and Whites starting at age 7. Why would Blacks do worse on an IQ test because they are discouraged? Which study has shown Blacks lack motivation when taking IQ tests? (I think you claimed this before, but made an assumption/'argument' rather than supported such a claim with a study) Thankfully such a theory can be dismissed as motivation is not a factor on general intelligence tests Blacks and Whites take: http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.topic185351.files/Rushton-Jensen30years.pdf So to understand your incoherent argument, you're saying Blacks are unmotivated to take IQ tests but not for other intelligence tests. What's funny is that you continue to dodge the group that refutes your arguments: East Asians experience employment discrimination yet perform better than Whites on IQ tests. I could cite American Eskimos and Inuits who have lower SES levels than Blacks but higher IQ; they also refute your correlation.
yes but while whites control all the money nothing will change, they will continue to create hell on earth (iraq, libya, congo etc etc etc)
Motivation and IQ test scores: http://www.nih.gov/researchmatters/may2011/05022011motivation.htm If a person cannot reasonably expect economic achievement based upon education, which is true for most African-Americans, then they won't be motivated when they take the tests. As noted even with a dramatic increase in the high school graduation rates for blacks there hasn't been a corresponding improvement in their economic outcomes over the last 50 years. Yes, Asians are subjected to discrimination but it is within a range where over-achievement can overcome the denial of economic opportunity. As I recall (correct me if I'm wrong) Asians receive about 7% less in compensation than a white person on the average. African-Americans, on the other hand, receive 40% less in compensation. 7% can be overcome but 40% cannot. Inuits and Eskimos are not involved in the same economic situation that most African-Americans are. They typically live in an economy where their livelihood is often based upon their efforts such as hunting. An African-American living in the inner city cannot go out and hunt for food. The fact that an Inuit or Eskimo may be discriminated against by US companies when compared to the discrimination against a black person is a comparison of apples and oranges. They don't face the same economic realities for the most part.
Check with China before being too sure who controls all the money, who is actively re colonizing Africa, and who is losing influence.
You posted this garbage before and I called you out on it. Nothing in that link about low motivation and taking IQ tests when the stakes are low proves your bold statement that the IQ gap between Blacks and Whites is all due to motivation: What part about proving a statement don't you understand? Do you not understand what proof is? It isn't claiming Blacks are less motivated to take IQ tests without showing they are. It isn't claiming the IQ gap is entirely accounted by motivation when you can't quantify the affect of motivation on IQ scores. To think you were complaining about making assumptions previously to see you post the same garbage you've been criticized for in the past. Learn what proof is and get back to me. Pathetic drivel. You haven't proven Blacks are less motivated when take tests; I've, btw, demonstrated the exact opposite. You haven't shown the amount motivation affects IQ. You can't make these baseless assumptions. Btw, get back to me as to why East Asians score significantly higher than Whites on IQ when I've already shown they're discriminated in the job market. LoL. What is this garbage? Do you care to prove any of this? Tell me what your range is? Did you just make that up? What is the threshold of this range? Pray tell where you've shown that East Asians over-achieve as opposed to having innately higher IQ than Whites, and over-achievement accounts for the entire wealth and IQ gap between Whites and East Asians? Oh, really? So the lion's share of the Eskimo and Inuit diet in North America is from hunting? I would have figured most Inuits and Eskimos obtain their food as the average North American resident does. Do you have more of this 'proof' or are you making assumptions again? Btw, what adoption study on five year old Black and White children showed no difference in IQ?
Might I suggest you'd have a better response posting on Stormfront than on Political Forum? Obviously you don't want to know the facts about racial oppression and denial of economic opportunity in America and I'm tired of posting study after study that established the understanding of the fact that Afircan-Americans are oppressed in the United States and that affects them in all aspects of their life. WASP male Americans have never been "punished" or oppressed in America (except the poor in all groups are oppressed by wealthy WASP males) and this entire thread is based upon racial prejudice, ignorance, and bigotry. That is a fact.
LoL. Coming from the whiner who correctly wouldn't blindly accept that Asian-Americans experience work place discrimination, you're now whining your pathetic links were refuted for not supporting what you were trying to claim and conclude. Where do you imagine you've addressed the countervailing evidence and successfully demonstrated your claims? Have you refuted the evidence that Blacks are not less motivated when taking highly g-loaded intelligence tests? No. Have you proven through studies that Blacks are less motivated taking IQ tests? (Did your source even show this?) No. Have you quantified motivation on IQ? No. Have you quantified motivational differences between Blacks and Whites? No. Did you share with us how you determined the range for success for those experiencing discrimination? No. Have you have even bothered to link to some IQ study on Black and White five year olds? No.
That's correct, I don't accept something just because someone says so although I highly expected that Asians were discrinated against today as they've been discriminated against in the past. I do accept information from creditable sources like the APA and scientific studies similar to all of those I've posted. Some people will dispute the hundreds of studies done on discrimination and denial of equality of opportunity for African-Americans (and other minorities) and call those studies "pathetic" perhaps. Generally speaking there are, of course, psychological reasons for anti-black racial prejudice including an inferiority complex (To boost their own low self-esteem by believing others are inferior to them) but we won't go into all of that. That is often the case when we have people that choose to believe that African-Americans aren't as smart as they are, They want to believe they're intellectually superior when, in fact, they are not. They will go to any length to disregard any evidence to the contrary because to do so would reveal that they're actually inferior to those they condemn with prejudice. I just tire of the racial prejudice as it become boring after awhile. The racist isn't going to change and is going to live in denial of the truth. I believe we have to simply accept that fact.
It's time to put this myth to bed. http://www.apa.org/research/action/stereotype.aspx The mere fact that there is a stereotype belief that blacks are intellectually inferior to whites, which all blacks are aware of, drives down their test scores. In a test environment where that stereotype doesn't exist the scores are the same. Even the simply act of the student having to identify their race for African-Americans drives down the test score as it introduces the racial stereotype into the test in the mind of the person. Of course all Blacks are aware of the fact that there is a statistical difference between IQ test scores for Blacks and Whites so any IQ test for a Black person introduces the racial stereotype and drives down their test scores. Basically the racial stereotype destroys some of the motivation for the African-American taking an IQ test to perform at their best that results in a lower test score which is exactly what I've stated.
What's pathetic is 1) claiming Blacks are less motivated taking IQ tests when you have no study on the motivational levels of Blacks taking IQ tests and 2) claiming the IQ gap between Blacks and Whites is entirely due to motivation when you don't have a shred of evidence one IQ point difference is from differing motivational levels. Where's that study on 5 year old Black and White children with the same IQ? Remember claiming something like that?
the chinese dont run western banks. if you think america is going to pay china back then you are living in a fantasy world. america will never pay that back therefore the chinese are not in control, unless they decide to take it back with force
LoL. It was not long ago Jewish Americans were seen as dimwitted. It's funny how that no longer holds true. But your study shows that Blacks and Whites with the same SAT scores do the same on tests where the Black-White IQ element is not at play. What it does not show is that a random sample of Black and White college students do the same on tests when the element is no longer a factor. Btw, how's that study on Black and White five year olds with the same IQ coming along?
I beg your pardon! OK...I guess you're right, the entire thread is based upon prejudice, ignorance, and bigotry against white males.
