Expected Israeli ground attack begins

BBC 2 showed a clip of a group of men taking the dead and wounded people on stretchers to ambulances. The BBC journalist was stationed with them. One rescuer (about 18 years old) wearing blue jeans and a t-shirt was shown as one of the stretcher carriers. The rescuers were searching through the rubble. The next clip showed that this man had been shot in the hand by an IDF sniper. Laying down injured in the rubble, the other rescuers shouted out to him. He screamed out in agony that he had been shot in the hand. Seconds later the sniper shot again killing him. He was a first response rescuer. It was all filmed by the BBC.

 

If you are fighting an islamic fundamentalist group like ISIS or Hamas, and your purpose is to destroy their infrastructure, and in this case, tunnels and missile launchers, you have to target the areas where they are. In this case, Hamas sets up launchers in UN charter schools, mosques, etc. You can't just not fire back because you are afraid of civilian casualties, particularly those of children. You can try your best, but thats it.

Imagine if Hamas were to fight Israel in an open battlefield, away from civilian areas, no schools, mosques, etc. Who do you think would win? As you can clearly see, Hamas has the advantage when it hides among civilian targets. They would be obliterated in an open field of combat and they know this. Look at the Iran-Iraq war, 1,000,000 dead in pretty much an open battlefield though. Iran used children by force to clear the minefields, telling them they would die as martyrs. But at least out in the open, in the desert, it was real war (yes I know Saddam bombed iran, killing iranian civilians). Hamas knows they wouldn't stand a chance against Israel's military arsenal in such a scenario.

 

Proof?

 

Right lets deal with another Zionist half truth, over the past 10 years 30 Israelis have died from rocket attacks from Gaza, 30 in 10 years.http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/rocket-deaths-israel.html How many Israelis have died in operation blow the crap out of innocent civilians in the past few days 37 according to latest UN figures. Now I am not a great military strategist but if my generals came to me and said
"we can stop the Rocket attacks for a while, all we have to do is have to do is attack a large area full of civilians with the possibility of large amounts of civilian deaths which will have a detrimental effect on our standing in the world."
"Sounds like a plan what are our likely casualty rates".
"well in the first couple of weeks we can expect a casualty rate nearly 1/3rd higher than we would sustain in the normal course of affairs over 10 years of rocket attacks"
"Brilliant says I, whilst telling my security to take the General to the funny farm!!!!"

Now either the IDF is the most incompetent fighting force in the history of mankind or there is another agenda!

All it needs is for people to see the simple truth in front of them, this is all about land, nowt else!

 

Israel warns the civilians to vacate the premises which are going to be destroyed. Hamas tells the people to ignore the warnings. This is simple truth which you ignore.

 

I saw this too. Murdered in cold blood by an Israeli sniper!

 

Vacating their homes is one thing. Where they go is another!
Where do they go? Everything they own and love is in their homes. If they go out onto the streets they are shot. If they stay in their homes they are blown to smithereens. Sounds like a no win situation to me ....

 

Whatever Drew, I think the point like the rockets just goes flying straight over your head if thats what you get from that.

Goodnight

 

You missed the point a long time ago, Hamas ensures their own people will die, that is what they do best.

Good night.

 

What shocks me the most in this all out massacre of the Palestinian people, is how us, the rest of the world, can just sit back and let Israel do it!

 

They're doing the right thing in the wrong way. Civilian deaths and ignoring peace talks is not what I want from our "most stable" ally in the Middle East

 

Peace talks with who, Hamas? Please pardon the naiveté of my question.

 

It's easy, when a terrorist strikes your nation, you have to stop it so, they target where the terrorist or the weapons used are, warn everybody to get away from that location and then, destroy it. When the terrorism stops, the need to destroy those locations as explained above stop as well.

- - - Updated - - -

And how would you stop a terrorist group from firing rockets at your people?

 

Nope, you are not a great military strategist by any stretch of imagination...and if you were in a position of responsibility for your country and if half the population of the country was forced to run to bomb shelter as often as Muslims run to their prayers and spend hours there each and every day, and if you had to pay billions for the defensive weapons just to save the lives of your electorate, if it cost your country tens of billions in lost revenue and property damage, if you were willing to put up with the humilitation of your country being attacked and bombarded on a daily basis without a response or an attempt to stop it...if you let it all continue you would not be a military strategist (great or lousy) for long, you'd be back sweeping the streets and emptying garbage bins in no time.....


It's also ironic that a nice muslim girl like you speaks of what she'd do if she was an Israeli military strategist and surprise surprise, she'd do nothing, she'd roll over and play dead.....Tell us, would you do what the Palestinians have been doing for the last 70 years if you were a Palestinian military strategist...would you wage wars and terror campaigns against Israel, would you keep military installations in residential areas, thinking how clever you are and how much PR you can get out of each and every civilian death?

 

Very well put Borat.

 

A common logical fallacy is that since Israel suffers far fewer civilian casualties then they must be the oppressor. Iron Dome has prevented hundreds of Israelis from dying, thousands of rockets have been fired at random civilian targets in israel. The majority of these rockets, the vast majority have been shot down. Suicide bombings have also decreased since the building of the wall. People on the opposing political side of the conflict choose to ignore this and the fact that Hamas sets up shop in UN charter schools in the territories.

Again, if it was a typical war on open ground, like in the valley of Megiddo or something, Hamas knows they wouldn't stand a chance. If they want to continue to exist as a terrorist organization and political party, they know they must hide behind children. Back in 2003, palestinian mothers would encourage their own children to strap bombs to their chest and blow up jews in suicide bombings, telling them they would go to heaven and be rewarded, not just boys, but girls too. I remember the interview with the mother of the palestinian 18-year old girl who became a suicide bomber. She killed a 17-year old Israel Jew named Rachel Levy

Rachel Levy


Palestinian suicide bomber Ayaat Al-AkraS (who blew up jews in a supermarket) is on the left



The interview with the palestinian mother was chilling. She praised her daughter's suicide bombing, praised the death of the 17 year old jewish victim, kept contradicting herself in a frenzied, menacing manner. What was very coincidental was that the israeli jewish victim rachel levy looked like she could have been a twin of the suicide bomber. (An example of how the mother contradicted herself, was her saying that this was zionism's fault, that she mourned for her daughter, and felt for the mother of the israeli girl, while at the same time said her daughter died a hero's death, that it was allah's will, that the jews are evil, that the victim and her daughter would meet in heaven, that the jewish girl deserved it, was spoiled because she was a zionist (an israeli jew), that jews would burn in hell etc....)How on earth can the jewish girl meet her daughter in heaven if non-muslims (especially israeli jews) automatically burn in hell?

And the real creepy thing is that this mother counts as a palestinian 'civilian' according to most of the western media, and according to all of the arab and islamic media outlets. And a lot of palestinian 'civilians' think this way. This is the enemy Israel is at war with, and when you have the international media saying that the civilian population that praises and encourages suicide bombings is innocent, its very, very difficult to run an effective war. These kind of people shouldn't be off limits, they aren't innocent. The only innocent palestinians are those who oppose suicide bombings. Its not just Hamas that carried these out either, Fatah is tied to al-aqsa martyrs brigade which is just as guilty. And there are now reports of palestinian 'militants' running out with guns and babies in their other arm. If they are willing to send their kids off to die in islamic suicide bombings, or 'martyrdom operations' what would stop them from putting their own children in the line of israeli fire?

Again, these are so called 'innocent civilians' carrying the body of ayaat al-akraS.



Here is a her father and a palestinian journalist praising her suicide bombing. The interview is in arabic with english subs, the translation is correct AFAIK, although I am not fluent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVp-r6VaKFw

 

STOP PRETENDING ISRAEL IS NOT THE AGGRESSOR, ISRAEL HAS BEEN THE OCCUPIER FOR FORTY YEARS!
YOU ARE NOT THE VICTIMS ANYMORE
STOP WHINING BECAUSE PEOPLE WHOSE LAND YOU OCCUPY FIGHT YOU!

I am not a Muslim woman, before you make assertions do a little homework, read my profile! Can't you zionist ever do any real research before you patronise or make wild allegations http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?p=1064110638#post1064110638. I was baptised a Christian, you know Christians, the religion that has really been persecuting Jews for 2000 years, the religion that accused Jews of killing their Christ, who brought you, the Child Blood Libel, the Spanish Inquisition, Expulsion, nearly 2000 years of unadulterated hatred against Jews culminating in The Holocaust.
And then it was the Christians who largely voted for you to be given a homeland of you own, unfortunately the land you wanted and they offered had people on it. Some of those people were Jews, some Christian but most were Muslims. Muslims were just a little annoyed that their land was to be given by Christians to Zionists. But since 1967 you have occupied even more of their land all on your own(well apart from the billions and billions of aid and weapons you get from what is perceived as the Christian USA).

Now why do you not admit as your signature alludes to that this is all about LAND, the Zionists want a GREATER ISRAEL

PS, I'm not a Christian, i'm an Atheist, just like the zionist founder.

 

Hmm, let's consider your claim. Israel has returned 99% of the land it captured in defensive wars it did not start to its rightful owners in exchange for a tiny piece of paper saying 'peace', in many cases ice-cold peace. It returned land to Egypt, to Jordan, in other cases (Syria, Lebanon, Gaza) Israel withdrew from the land it conqured without a peace agreement.


Israel accepted the partition resolution (the Jews weren't happy but they knew how to make compromises), the Arabs did not, Israel accepted UNSC land for peace resolution (#242), the Arabs did not.... Israel completely withdrew from Gaza, Gaza is self-controlled, it had free election, it's governed by democratically elected terrorist organization, it's totally self-ruled... The West Bank while occupied is largely self-governed as well, they also had elections, they also have their own Palestinian government, police, various institutions etc, any possible peace negotiations will include land swaps, not land theft.


How does all that fit into your nice pet theory of "Greater Israel"?

 

PEOPLE THINK ISRAEL IS THE AGGRESSOR BECAUSE YOU OCCUPY OTHER PEOPLES LAND FOR FORTY YEARS

It is like there is this Zionist collective thought that there was just a big piece of land empty, and those people who lived already are really not "sports" for fighting their oppressors!!!!!

Yes if you build a bloody great wall (illegally) to stop the nasty people coming back to their homes you will stop the violence for awhile, its not rocket science! Trouble is that it breeds more anger,resentment and hatred.

I will repeat it again.

All other discussion must be put into the context of Israel's behaviour in the OPT.
When the situation is put into the simple perspective that Israel is the aggressor and illegal occupier, then it becomes possible to at least understand the position of the people of the OPT even if I and others do not agree with or condone it.

 

Very nicely because it shows how delusional Zionists have become. Israel occupies, the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza under international law HERE.
Again,
"Israel completely withdrew from Gaza, Gaza is self-controlled, it had free election, it's governed by democratically elected terrorist organization, it's totally self-ruled."
FACT Israel argues that its occupation of the Gaza Strip ended with the unilateral withdrawal of its settler population in 2005. It then declared the Gaza Strip to be “hostile territory” and declared war against its population. Neither the argument nor the statement is tenable. Despite removing 8,000 settlers and the military infrastructure that protected their illegal presence, Israel maintained effective control of the Gaza Strip and thus remains the occupying power as defined by Article 47 of the Hague Regulations. To date, Israel maintains control of the territory’s air space, territorial waters, electromagnetic sphere, population registry and the movement of all goods and people.

Stop deluding yourself that you are not an occupier and aggressor its pathetic that you think people will forever believe this stance

 

So basically you are saying that Israel's withdrawal from Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria Gaza, parts of West bank, Israel's return of government control back to the Palestiians in Gaza and the West Bank were all part of its grand plan of Greater Israel? LOL Does it make any sense to you? it's ok sunshine, this illogical common-sense defying mess in the minds of Che Guevara wannabes is quite typical.

 

In that case the population of Gaza is then under martial law which Israel may force obedience through force to adhere to.

" Under the Martial Law imposed by this regime, residents are required to obey the occupying authorities and may be punished for not doing so."

 

And yet again we have reached the point where you have to argue against international law, unable to find and produce evidence that what I write is not true, you return to the task of discrediting the poster and defining international law as illogical common-sense defying mess in the minds of Che wannabes is quite typical

And as I have said to others and quite possibly yourself, everytime you result to this tactic, it makes me feel better because I know you cannot proceed against my arguments which are based on international law.

So go ahead call me what you wish, make false allegations against myself (wannabe Che Guevara I quite like that!) impugn my integrity, play the victim, tell us about terrible Muslim atrocities. BECAUSE YOU CANNOT ARGUE AGAINST INTERNATIONAL LAW

 

Make your mind up drew is Israel an occupying force or not? Then I will start to outline Israels responsibilities!

You are attempting to obscure the argument with dodgy semantics again.

Does Israel occupy Gaza in your opinion or not?

 

Cle-*

The US, Europe (Western and Easter), Asia, Africa, the entire arab and muslim world don't give a flying f*ck about international law, all these countries break every aspect of it every day....Besides international law does not require Israel to withdraw unilaterally and Hamas is not negotiating. Clearly you are not a heavy weight on international law either.

That being said you made a bunch of claims you can't possibly support, specifically claim of a greater Israel which is absurd nonsense in light of israel's withdrawal from pretty much everywhere. Duh.

In case you have not noticed you changed topic in every one of your post....You tried Greater Israel - fail, you switched to occupation - failed, you moved on to international law - failed.