It's disturbing how immoral the religious right is.

How many of them are living inside of someone else?

 

They are using resources of other people without their explicit permission.

 

Use the quote feature so posters know when and who you're addressing.


They are not using(attacking) the other people as a fetus is attacking a woman. And since you obviously don't believe they can use the resources of others without permission then those people should be free to withdraw their permission....as a woman does when getting an abortion.

 

No, but I find the difference rather unmeaningful.

I do believe that to be permissable in some cases.

Well, yes: but not for the reason you mentioned. Do you believe it's always wrong to use someone elses resources without their explicit permission, by the way?

 

How can an embryo be "an individual" of any kind when the possibility of twinning exists?

 

That's true and it is an interesting question what to define an embryo with that potential as. Apparently this occurs (in the case of identical twins) 1-8 days from fertilization (source). After that it seems reasonable to call the... biomass in question an individual.

 

"An individual member of the species homo sapiens" is not the same thing as the conventional understanding of the meaning of "individual."

 

Really like what?

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of course you are entitled to that opinion, though an opinion does not change reality.

Well I don't

Yes I do

 

Well, by being net-receivers when it comes to taxation and the consumption of the services the public sector provides.

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Of course it can be generalized to any species. I'm not aware of other definitions that are not overly vague and that I thus try to avoid using.

 

yes it is wrong to use someone's body without their permission....

 

But not their other resources?

 

Possibly but this thread and forum are about abortion and NO, no person can use another's body without their permission.

 

So you equate services the same as using another person body to sustain yourself.

 

Having a similarity (using resources without permission) is not the same thing as equating one another. If you consider one wrong but the other don't, you can't use that similiar characteristic as an argument for why one is wrong (or right). That was all I was trying to say (or rather: lead you into realizing yourself).

 

Except that there is a major difference between using resources that cause no physical injury to another and using resources that do, so no, there is no similarity between the two ie it is a false equivalence.

 

Well, I don't know if you could call what the unborn baby is doing physical injury in most cases, but okay, not that interested in the semantics. Just remember to add "bodily" resources the next time you make that argument.

However, you would have to agree with mrs. Thomson on this:

Imagine, Thomson says, that you wake up in bed next to a famous violinist. He is unconscious with a fatal kidney ailment; and because only you happen to have the right blood type to help, the Society of Music Lovers has kidnapped you and plugged your circulatory system into his so that your kidneys can filter poisons from his blood as well as your own. If he is disconnected from you now, he will die; but in nine months he will recover and can be safely disconnected. Thomson takes it that you may permissibly unplug yourself from the violinist even though this will kill him.

Source.

 

Well medical ALL pregnancies cause physical injury. The difference is whether the woman consents to those injuries or not.

Personally I don't think pro-lifers have really thought through their mandate to the "person at conception" ideology. Pro-lifers seem to want to concentrate on the protections that would bring and gloss over or even ignore the restrictions it also brings.

Actually I don't, it is flawed.

 

"Semantics" ??????

Normal, frequent or expectable temporary side effects of pregnancy:
•exhaustion (weariness common from first weeks)
•altered appetite and senses of taste and smell
•nausea and vomiting (50% of women, first trimester)
•heartburn and indigestion
•constipation
•weight gain
•dizziness and light-headedness
•bloating, swelling, fluid retention
•hemmorhoids
•abdominal cramps
•yeast infections
•congested, bloody nose
•acne and mild skin disorders
•skin discoloration (chloasma, face and abdomen)
•mild to severe backache and strain
•increased headaches
•difficulty sleeping, and discomfort while sleeping
•increased urination and incontinence
•bleeding gums
•pica
•breast pain and discharge
•swelling of joints, leg cramps, joint pain
•difficulty sitting, standing in later pregnancy
•inability to take regular medications
•shortness of breath
•higher blood pressure
•hair loss
•tendency to anemia
•curtailment of ability to participate in some sports and activities
•infection including from serious and potentially fatal disease
(pregnant women are immune suppressed compared with non-pregnant women, and are more susceptible to fungal and certain other diseases)
•extreme pain on delivery
•hormonal mood changes, including normal post-partum depression
•continued post-partum exhaustion and recovery period (exacerbated if a c-section -- major surgery -- is required, sometimes taking up to a full year to fully recover)

Normal, expectable, or frequent PERMANENT side effects of pregnancy:
•stretch marks (worse in younger women)
•loose skin
•permanent weight gain or redistribution
•abdominal and vaginal muscle weakness
•pelvic floor disorder (occurring in as many as 35% of middle-aged former child-bearers and 50% of elderly former child-bearers, associated with urinary and rectal incontinence, discomfort and reduced quality of life -- aka prolapsed utuerus, the malady sometimes badly fixed by the transvaginal mesh)
•changes to breasts
•varicose veins
•scarring from episiotomy or c-section
•other permanent aesthetic changes to the body (all of these are downplayed by women, because the culture values youth and beauty)
•increased proclivity for hemmorhoids
•loss of dental and bone calcium (cavities and osteoporosis)
•higher lifetime risk of developing Altzheimer's
•newer research indicates microchimeric cells, other bi-directional exchanges of DNA, chromosomes, and other bodily material between fetus and mother (including with "unrelated" gestational surrogates)

Occasional complications and side effects:
•complications of episiotomy
•spousal/partner abuse
•hyperemesis gravidarum
•temporary and permanent injury to back
•severe scarring requiring later surgery
(especially after additional pregnancies)
•dropped (prolapsed) uterus (especially after additional pregnancies, and other pelvic floor weaknesses -- 11% of women, including cystocele, rectocele, and enterocele)
•pre-eclampsia (edema and hypertension, the most common complication of pregnancy, associated with eclampsia, and affecting 7 - 10% of pregnancies)
•eclampsia (convulsions, coma during pregnancy or labor, high risk of death)
•gestational diabetes
•placenta previa
•anemia (which can be life-threatening)
•thrombocytopenic purpura
•severe cramping
•embolism (blood clots)
•medical disability requiring full bed rest (frequently ordered during part of many pregnancies varying from days to months for health of either mother or baby)
•diastasis recti, also torn abdominal muscles
•mitral valve stenosis (most common cardiac complication)
•serious infection and disease (e.g. increased risk of tuberculosis)
•hormonal imbalance
•ectopic pregnancy (risk of death)
•broken bones (ribcage, "tail bone")
•hemorrhage and
•numerous other complications of delivery
•refractory gastroesophageal reflux disease
•aggravation of pre-pregnancy diseases and conditions (e.g. epilepsy is present in .5% of pregnant women, and the pregnancy alters drug metabolism and treatment prospects all the while it increases the number and frequency of seizures)
•severe post-partum depression and psychosis
•research now indicates a possible link between ovarian cancer and female fertility treatments, including "egg harvesting" from infertile women and donors
•research also now indicates correlations between lower breast cancer survival rates and proximity in time to onset of cancer of last pregnancy
•research also indicates a correlation between having six or more pregnancies and a risk of coronary and cardiovascular disease

Less common (but serious) complications:
•peripartum cardiomyopathy
•cardiopulmonary arrest
•magnesium toxicity
•severe hypoxemia/acidosis
•massive embolism
•increased intracranial pressure, brainstem infarction
•molar pregnancy, gestational trophoblastic disease
(like a pregnancy-induced cancer)
•malignant arrhythmia
•circulatory collapse
•placental abruption
•obstetric fistula
More permanent side effects:
•future infertility
•permanent disability
•death.