USS Liberty Remembered At Navy Memorial

Yeah, you sure do - but don't be surprized if we don't give a schnitz about what you think, or if you get ridiculed for it. Go on, dance for my pleasure.

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Well, if you're into ship identification, this one's pretty obvious with all of its antennas. Besides, I don't think it was a secret that this ship was there, doing what it did (but I have been mistaken before).

 

Anyone who claims to know exactly what happened and why it happened, is a liar.

There is too much info, too many witnesses, too man transcripts, too many interviews, for anyone to know for sure if it was an accident, intentional, misidentification, etc.

 

Fair enough. At least you doesn't sound like either side's unpaid cheerleader.

As for me, I prefer to believe in the direct witness' own testimonies.

 

the witnesses on the boat have no idea why Israel attacked them.

all they know is they were attacked.

however, other witnesses state that they thought it may have been an Egyptian or Soviet ship.

 

Israel was willing to go to war with the US because they were listening? Incredible!

 

The evidence does exist.

 

It does? Where?

 

On the first page.

 

no, it doesn't.

 

I provided a word for word rebuttal of the USS Liberty incident which was censored as flame bait.

If you go to

www.thelibertyincident.com

you can find extensive explanations debunking all the theories as to the USS Liberty incident that are now used by anti Israeli posters on this board to try advance the notion that Israel lied to the US and deliberately attacked its CIA spy ship.

Also

http://hnn.ys/article/39936

The attempt to use the USS Liberty incident by anti Israeli posters is nothing new. Its been going on for years and it requires quoting theories that have now been debunked depending on the audience not to bother to read past the debunked theory.

For example some anti Israel posters will say I prefer to take the word of the witnesses. Its actually a very stupid thing to say because the actual witness that was depended on to suggest Israel deliberately attacked the USS Liberty's testimony fell apart when he contradicted it.

interestingly the witness stated the planes that attacked were unmarked only after completing his testimony when he said he barely had time to hit the deck and so could not have seen the colours on the attack planes.

Other witnesses on the ship clearly saw the Israeli markings both on the planes and on the ships that came to sink the Liberty.

The witness said Israel ships deliberately shot at the lie boats full of US sailors. This same witness though said most of the life rafts were destroyed and only talked of the alleged killings after his testimony not during.

The Captain of the ship and other crew members said there were very few lie rafts and in fact the Israel ships called off their attack when they realized what was happening and that I was Americans.

One of the most absurd issues involved in this incident are the anti Israel posters saying it was a deliberate attack. On July 10,2003 the actual tapes of the first pilot to attack (Spector) are now released and on the internet and clearly show a mistake and confusion.

Another theory is the pilot would have to have seen the US flag on the ship. The person advancing that theory was proven wrong because the speed of the attack jets and the slip stream would have had the flag flowing at an angle that would easily be missed by a pilot.

Over 6 US investigations reported the incident as a series of mistakes between both the US and Israel. The US told Israel its ship was 100 miles from where it actually was. The two theories for that are that since it was a CIA ship the US did not want Israel to know exactly where it was and lied or the preferable and more probable theory is the US did not advise the Liberty to pull back as it was supposed to after telling Israel it was not in the area Israel asked it was in.

What all the released information now shows is a series of errors both by the US and Israel resulting in a friendly fire incident.

Interestingly the Zionists did it on purpose posters claim Israel denied attacking the USS Liberty but then when information came out showing they told the US immediately, those same people would not retract their statements just as they have zero explanation to offer about the Israeli pilot's explanation and apology. Not a peep.

The anti Israel agenda using the Liberty incident fell apart when these same individuals claimed the US covered up the incident. All the documents are now released and clearly show both US and Israeli errors. What do the anti Israelis say-well all those documents are fake. the 6 US investigations including the NSA investigation that all indicated the incident as a friendly fire error-no they are all involved in the lie for Israel.

The sad fact is friendly fire incidents happen. One happened where a US fighter pilot high on amphetamines in Afghanistan shot and killed a Canadian unit on the ground thinking they were Taliban.

There were many friendly fire incidents in the Gulf War, Afghanistan, Iraq and often US against US.

This happens, However the idea that people make mistakes for some is implausible. Everything has to make sense and fit into neat and
easy to understand cause and effect incidents.

To such people, war is not chaos. Its all thought out. Everything is done with precision.

The cold hard reality is Israel thought the USS Liberty was an Egyptian navy ship shooting at its troops. No more no less.

By the time they realized it was an American ship the damage was done.

This CIA ship was spying on both Israel and the other side. The US was very worried the 1967 war was about to trigger Russian nuclear intervention against Israel.

The US and Israel were allies but it would not mean the US would not worry and want to watch everything Israel was doing and in those days CIA ships did the job as there were no satellites.

No one covered up this incident. Israel apologized openly and explained its actions.

There are survivors of the USS liberty who feel they were sunk by the Israeli air force and navy.Of course some would be mad
and think there was a cover up or it was deliberate. They would not be privy to the info Israel had at the time of the attack.

When they were shown the results of the investigations conducted by the US and more and more documents have been released
many have come to know it was a screw up.

Many in Vietnam can tell you how their own air force dropped napalm on them. War vets in Korea, WW2 can tell you the chaos and
insanity of war and how your own soldiers can shoot you in the back shooting at the enemy.

The saddest thing is the attempt by anti Israelis to exploit the sorrow and anger of US sailors about the liberty for their own agenda that
has nothing to do with the welfare of these sailors and everything to do with exploiting their pain for their own political agenda against
Israel.

You owe it to yourself to do more than allow someone to distort history and manipulate you to hate your own government and Israel because that is what these posters using the incident do. They would not just have you believe Israel is a ZIonist evil empire that shoots its friends in the back but it
works with evil Americans who are controlled by these Zionist monsters.

Enough with the b.s. For those of you who say the Iraelis were involved in a false flag operation pull your head out of your wazoo. If that was the case they would not have immediately told the US what they did and they would have use an Egyptian Mig aircraft not Israeli Mystere fighters and torpedo ships all clearly identified.

For those of you who say they were trying to get the US into the world get some brain cells. By the time this incident happened Israel was decisively wining the war. the last thing they wanted was US involvement which would have triggered Russian involvement.

Its absolutely idiotic to think Israel would want another army on the ground with a different language, command structure and agenda conflicting with its own.

The logistics alone of bringing the us into Israel would have been impossible at that time given the size of Israel.

It would have made the US and therefore Israel a fat vulnerable target to a Russian air war.

 

There is NO way they confused an Egyptian horse freighter that had NO guns with the USS Liberty.

 

Its quite possible, The USS Liberty could have easily been mistaken as an Egyptian navy ship or freighter,

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MOD EDIT - Off Topic

 

Nah. Maybe by pedestrians totally alien to naval matters (and a bit dumb), but not to a spotter plane crew. There's just no way.

The USS Liberty is from one of the most produced ship in history: a Victory Ship. The bow, stern, funnels, bridge, antennas and even the size of the ship (the Liberty was 4 times bigger then the egyptian ship) left no doubts about its nature. And that's ignoring the flags, or the fact that the spotter plane took his time circling it, at low altitude, and by perfect weather.

This can't be an identification blunder - do your brain a favour and forget about it.

 

Do you have any idea how many troops die from friendly fire in wars ? not even talking about allies but soldiers shooting at their own peers, you woukldnt expect Americans to confuse Viet-Kong with other Americans right ?
Last round in Gaza the first 5 Israeli soldiers were killed by friendly fire on diffrent events, war is chaotic to everyone.

 

transcripts released by the NSA show there was confusion as to the nationality of the ship.

 

Which makes me remember a joke about two farmers who just couldn't distinguish their horses from one another. They tried calling them by their names, make them race to see who's the fastest, learned about what they liked or particular traits of character - but they still were not able to tell them apart. So they decided to measure them, and that's when they found out that the white horse was a good 2ft taller than the black one.

 

Agreed but the spotter plane was not part of the attack on the Liberty but rather searching for submarines and seeing the Liberty he reported it to his HQ who didn't report a non event such as that to the forces who conducted the attack. A case of the right hand not working with the left.

Let's have a look at all these other shi8ps you are talking about please.

You or your pals still have yet to provide a reason for Israel to risk going to war with the US so please do so in order to have a leg to stand on.

Even those who actually lived in an apartheid state deny that it is so it seems you are once again vomiting disinformation again on these forums.

Which of these ships does the Liberty or El Quissar look like?



Fact is, they resemble each other more than any other ship in the picture above remembering that at sea there is no way to tell size when there are no objects to use as scale.

 

Did they throw them in the ocean so there was nothing to use as scale or did they actually have a reference to use such as a measuring stick, something unavailable to an attack aircraft traveling at high speed?

 

Why posting argumentation that goes against your own point?

MOD EDIT - Off Topic

 

They are not as you still failed to show us how the Liberty or El Quissar resemble any other warship save each other. Oh, and the reason for the attack other than mistaken identity is still sticking out like a sore thumb from your argument - why would Israel wish to risk it's existence by going to war with the US?

 

how are fighter pilots supposed to know for sure the identity of a boat when they are flying at hundreds of miles an hour?

 

They cruised the Liberty repeatedly at slower speeds.. Must have thought the Egyptian "horse freighter" was flying a large US flag.

 

You know, when they build a ship, they don't design it from scratch on the slips. Most often, ships belong to what is called a "ship's class". The USS Liberty was a Victory-class ship, one of the most produced ship class in history. There were something like 500 of these ships raoming the seas - and even among them, the USS Liberty was unique, because of its antennas.

There are three absolute certitudes in life: Death, taxes and the fact that in naval matters, I know infinitely more than you do, but still less than a spotter plane crew worthy of that name.

 

They were attacking so were not going at slower speeds. So, what did they use as a reference to gauge size of the ship as they attacked her at hundreds of miles per hour and, for what reason would Israel wish to risk their own existence by going to war with the US?

 

As soon as they realized that the Liberty would not be sink, and that their false-flag operation failed, the Israelis transformed into so much Mother Theresas and offered help precisely to avoid what you wrote.