The Story of Jesus and Mary in the Holy Quran

I want to add sth about Islamic belif about women to show U , U are wrong!
some one in old nation believed women are lower in humanity ranking . and some other mostly in western country said men and women are equal. but what we believe is not any of these.we say the reality of human (it' soul or spirit ) is not male or female.that I want to say their or equal or not.being man or woman is only about your body in this world(not your soul) and it doesn't have any effect on any ones value.
as your race or color has no effect.
we don't belive it was Eve's fault that Adam has done sin and she mad hime do it (what is in bible...) .we don't believe women is evil etc.

In Islam we have Hazrat Fatimah who was prophet's daughter.we believe she was greatest woman in the world (and after here there is 3 other women who one of them is Mary) . it is said she is in highest ranking between prophets (except one of them , prophet Mohammad)
or there is her daughter Seyedeh Zeinab the one who lots of people are losing their life in Syria voluntarily to protect her holy Shrine against terrorists.
or do U know the city of Qom which is one of the most famous and important city for Shiites first become famous and important because of Hazrat Masoumeh shrine?she was one of the greatest woman who lots of clergy men went there because of her great dignity.

 

thank U I respect your belief too.but now we are not talking about God's ability we are talking about possibility.for example God has this ability to be cruel but it is impossible for God to do anything injustice!he has this ability but we can prove with sensible reason it is impossible for God to do it.
it is said that some one asked Imam Sadiq if God can put earth in egg? he answered yes God can do any thing but this is impossible.there is difference between them.
it is obvious dear that material is limited and God is not limited.so God is not material.

yes U are right it depends on people interpretation.
and honestly I have read only some parts of Bible but not the whole..

of course I have said our belief about Bible but I have seen some where in Bible Jesus called himself son of man and also I have seen some one who knew Aramaic and Hebrew who shown me the name of " Mohammad" in Bible but unfortunately they have translated the name!...talking about it can take a lot of time but if we try to use sensible reasons it can be easier to catch the truth

 

Most Christian theologians would probably agree with you in this point. As Thomas Aquinas - probably one of the most influential theologians for Western Christianity - put it: “ (…) in God, power and essence, will and intellect, wisdom and justice, are one and the same. Whence, there can be nothing in the divine power which cannot also be in His just will or in His wise intellect.” (Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica I,25,5, ad I.)

Not sure whether Thomas Aquinas would still agree with the egg-example. He goes on to say: “Although this order of things be restricted to what now exists, the divine power and wisdom are not thus restricted. Whence, although no other order would be suitable and good to the things which now are, yet God can do other things and impose upon them another order.”


And mind you: loads of atheists in this forum would say Muslims and Christians both are bonkers for believing things they deem “impossible”.

Well, most Christians would certainly agree that God as such is not material and not in time and space. But also in Christianity God is perfect love. Would love be perfect if it did not allow itself to be compassionate and even to be hurt? How can God be loving if He cannot open Himself to suffering with the material world He created and which he loves? And why should God being unlimited mean that God could not limit Himself in order to reach out to His limited creation?

However, this brings me to another question: while there are large treatises and discussions among Christian theologians in how God’s transcendence corresponds with God’s immanence and how His impassibility corresponds with His love, I could find nothing on Islam’s view on God’s immanence whatsoever. So regardless of the question whether and how Christ is God, what would you as a Muslim make of guys like Augustine praying: “Thou wast more inward to me than the most inward part of me; and higher than my highest reach.” (Augustine, Confessiones III, Chapter VI)

Never mind! We probably all are most familiar with our own tradition’s scriptures. I must admit never read the entire Qu’ran either. Which makes reading your quotations all the more interesting.

Well, I’m not so sure about Mohammed being mentioned in the Bible. After all its texts were written long before Mohammed’s time. But you are right about “the son of man”. Christ indeed calls Himself that in all the four Gospels. This doesn’t contradict the doctrine of trinity though, which holds that Jesus is both fully man and fully God (Hypostatic Union). According to this doctrine He is God in all eternity, but humbled Himself to become man when He was conceived by Mary.

As for the truth: We can probably agree that we’ll never fully grasp it, for God is far beyond our human understanding. However: I’m sure interreligious dialogue will help us to get a broader view and at least a better understanding of each other.

 

That there is one God and that people should worship Him, along with the positive qualities that believers should have and exercise (generosity, patience, etc...).

 

Yeah, they do tend to do that (especially when it comes to the war verses).

 

What a joke.

 

If the Koran is true I will gladly go to hell.

 

Not much to squabble about there.....Heads=one fairy tale, Tails=another fairy tale!

 

Aside from the Trinity part, didnt Jesus teach that same message? So why do Muslims believe his teachings were corrupted? If Muslims believe Jesus in the bible didnt claim he was God, what about his teachings were supposedly corrupted?

 

I have another question about the Quran. Do most Quran translations mention the names of characters/prophets in Arabic or in the language people are reading them in (like English)? I know most Muslims, regardless of language, will usually refer to God by his name in Arabic (Allah), but does that custom also apply to prophets?

 

Like Hillary Said, "At This Point What Difference Does It Make?"

 

well we have sth like that too.so briefly if I want to explain I can say because God is perfect so he is free from want. so he can't be made of multiparts (because it means he needs these parts!) so we reach to the fact that what U said.and all his characteristics are unique.
and we call it Characteristics of Monotheism
U can read more here : http://shiastudies.net/article/english/Article.php?id=7061

well in egg-example we have been talking about God' actions but not God's characteristics.
also I just wanted to make it easier to understand the difference between possibility and ability.we can have that example for 2*2=5 !!! happening of such thing is impossible! so if it never would happen is not because God dose not have this ability.this is a bout possibility

also Characteristics of Monotheism is in the essence not in expression of these characteristics.but in trinity it is believed that God's essence changes to material!and it is in contradict with being perfect.If sth is perfect is free from need ( as I explained it's reason ) , is not mad up of parts , is not limited , it's essence never will change and etc. so obviously is not material.

oh! so sorry to say that sb who don't believe in God is bonkers. logical and sensible reasons prove his existence!

I don't understand why U think it is necessary for God to suffer if he loves his creation?

well we say God is every where and also is no where!
there is a good example for that.
lots of people in Islam say God is immanent because he is not limited and also he is not in any specific place, again because he is not limited
Imam Khomeini said in this case that if God be a sea his creations are it's wave
but if we say God is immanent it does not mean his essence is his creations essence ( I explained it's reason )
of course this is a part of hardest subject in Islamic philosophy that really understanding that is not as easy as this. if some one

yes.

well I am about sure
exactly because it has been written long before Islam it can be a proof for Islam. we believe all prophets before him had foreseen his coming.if U want I can tell U some parts of Bible that I think has talked about prophet Mohammad.
I don't know how much U know a bout history of the time of prophet Mohammad.If U study about it U will see people who lived with him in Mecca refuted him but people in Medina accepted him. it is said that the reason was some knowledge that Jews had been given to them about him. they had his signs in their book.ً Qoran said this about that : " Those whom We have given the Book recognize him as they recognize their sons, and a party of them most surely conceal the truth while they know (it). " (2 : 146 )

well I don't understand why Christianity emphasis on this subject when it has to justify lots of discord in this case.and has no harmony with logical and sensible reason, with Bible text even.and when there is no obvious , exact text in Bible a bout it ...
regardless of sensible , logical reasons why God should humble himself?!

 

told U dude that Jesus massage could not be kept intact.
well the problem of Bible is not only trinity. unfortunately it charged some great prophets with some great guilt or sth that really is beneath their dignity! like prophet David , Lot ,Jacob , Solomon or even Jesus!
and U know new testament has been written by someone after holy Christ.not by himself.

and also when another religion came after other one U should obey it. as Jews had to do it about Christianity.

of course religions purely had no such great difference except some small things in technicians.(sending different prophets with some different technicians have some reasons that we can talk about it later.) because of that Qoran says :
and believe in what i have revealed, verifying that which is with you, and be not the first to deny it, neither take a mean price in exchange for my communications; and me, me alone should you fear ( 2 : 41 )

 

well yes.we mention names in Arabic too. for example we call Jesus Christ " Isa masih " or Mary as " maryam " (which is my name too! ) or Josef is Yusef
of course some times there is not difference like Adam or Ibrahim .
the reason is that we believe Qoran has not written by human and it's text is God's sent. Qoran's text it self is a miracle it self for some one who know Arabic
also translating Arabic in to another language is not easy because Arabs have lots of different words for any infinitesimal different meanings for example the blood which is in heart has one word blood that came out of your body another world blood in the brain another and etc.!! so most of the time if U want to translate it well U have to explain a lot...
because of that saving the main text is very important for us.

 

In this point you’re very much on board with one of Christianity’s’ most influential theologians, Thomas Aquinas: http://www.oxfordhandbooks.com/view...95326093.001.0001/oxfordhb-9780195326093-e-14

Probably no surprise: After all Aquinas himself was very much influenced by the Muslim theologian Ibn Rushd and his commentaries on Aristotle.

The point is: Christians don’t believe God has parts either. Christian theology says that God is “simple, not composite, not made up of thing upon thing.” We even go as far as saying that God has no characteristics, but is His characteristics. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_simplicity) To Christians, who pray the Nicene Creed, what we call Father, Son and Holy spirit are “homoousious” (of one essence). It’s just that we believe that this one divine essence reveals itself in three different ways.

Well, see above. Even as a Christian I doubt that one could have found Jesus’ divine essence under a microscope in His cut toe-nails (then again I am a Protestant and not into relics ). IMHO to believe such would be a very wrong understanding of “incarnation”, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarnation_(Christianity) ) according to which was God’s word becoming flesh.

See, in a sense, what the Qu’ran is to Muslims - the very word of God - to us Christians is Jesus Christ in His life, death and resurrection. The New Testament just gives testimony of this living word.

So some would think it impossible that a book written in human language could be the very word of God, some would deem it impossible that a 1th century man could have been the very word of God.

Well, I’d say while our faith in God certainly is reasonable, our limited human reason is not going to be able to ‘prove’ God’s existence. And His existence certainly does not depend on us doing so.

As one of my favourite theologians, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, put it: “A god who let us prove his existence would be an idol.”
And as Aquinas said: “To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible.”

So let us not be too harsh with atheists. Their lack of faith doesn’t mean they are stupid. And our faith in God is not an intellectual feat of ours, but a present from God.

Because His creation suffers and God is love and compassion. When somebody we love suffers, don’t we suffer, too? How could we be more compassionate than God is?

Even though it sounds almost pantheist to me that sea/wave thing is a beautiful metaphor.

Well, yes, even though Jews will disagree with this view, Christians read the Old Testament as pointing to the coming of Jesus, so I can probably understand how Muslims can read it as pointing to the coming of Mohammed.

Well, I suppose Christians regard their respective view of God as just as coherent as Muslims regard their respective view of God as coherent, while finding the perspective of the other a bit illogical or weird.
But while we certainly have different perspectives, all in all the big world religions have so much in common when it comes to their views of God, that I’m absolutely sure that we are talking about the same One. And frankly, I doubt whether the one God minds whether He is worshipped in Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu … ways as long as we each try to worship Him the best we can.

A) If you love somebody and this somebody is too low to reach you, wouldn’t you try to reach down?

B) I understand that some of our gospels must sound outrageous to Muslims, but for a Christian one of the most important lessons to be learned from the life of Christ is that God did not reach down to us as a powerful, victorious and rich king, but as a humble wandering Jewish preacher, who sat with sinners and who got crucified between criminals. So whenever we look down on the least in society - the weak, sick and poor - we look down on God. As Jesus says in Mt. 25:31-46: "Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

 

What about Yahya (John)? How is he referred to usually? Baptism isnt a part of Islam. Is he usually referred to as just John, or John the Baptist (what Christians call him)?

 

well prophet john or as U said Yahya is so respectable for us (and we believe him as a prophet) exactly for Shiites he was so special because Imam Hussein had same story as him (of course in huge level) and they are so same in lots of cases...
in holy Qoran there is sth a bout him too.for example in a chapter that it's name is Maryam (chapter 4 ) we have this:
a mention of the mercy of your lord to his servant zakariya (2)
when he called upon his lord in a low voice, (3)
he said: my lord! surely my bones are weakened and my head flares with hoariness, and, my lord! i have never been unsuccessful in my prayer to thee: (4)
and surely i fear my cousins after me, and my wife is barren, therefore grant me from thyself an heir, (5)
who should inherit me and inherit from the children of yaqoub, and make him, my lord, one in whom thou art well pleased (6 )
o zakariya! surely we give you good news of a boy whose name shall be yahya: we have not made before anyone his equal (7)
he said: o my lord! when shall i have a son, and my wife is barren, and i myself have reached indeed the extreme degree of old age? ( 8 )
he said: so shall it be, your lord says: it is easy to me, and indeed i created you before, when you were nothing (9 )
he said: my lord! give me a sign. he said: your sign is that you will not be able to speak to the people three nights while in sound health (10 )
so he went forth to his people from his place of worship, then he made known to them that they should glorify (allah) morning and evening (11)
o yahya! take hold of the book with strength, and we granted him wisdom while yet a child (12)
and tenderness from us and purity, and he was one who guarded (against evil), (13)
and dutiful to his parents, and he was not insolent, disobedient (14)
and peace on him on the day he was born, and on the day he dies, and on the day he is raised to life (15)
or there is sth else about him too:
then the angels called to him as he stood praying in the sanctuary: that allah gives you the good news of yahya (John) verifying a word from allah, and honorable and chaste and a prophet from among the good ones (3 : 39 )
and Zachariah, when he cried unto his lord: my lord! leave me not childless, though thou art the best of inheritors ( 6 : 89 )
and Zachariah and john and Jesus and Elias. each one (of them) was of the righteous. (6 : 89 )
then we heard his prayer, and bestowed upon him john, and adjusted his wife (to bear a child) for him. lo! they used to vie one with the other in good deeds, and they cried unto us in longing and in fear, and were submissive unto us (21 :90 )
etc.

regardless to that we have some kind of rules in Islam winch is like that and we call it Qosl but not with the Aim of baptism.in Islam washing your self in Fridays or some other special days is a kind of devotions.
If I don't make mistake in Christianity baptism is sth to repent of sin or to get christian.but in Islam if sb want to repent only is needed to regret for first , and ask God (directly) to forgive U for second. ( I mean it is not needed to confess to clergymen!actually in Islam U don't have this right to disgrace yourself and also it is a sin!!, expect in so special cases ,for example when U have to confess in court to solve some sort of problems and etc. ) and also (at last ) if U have mad trouble for someone U should fix that (as much as U can). in this way in 3 steps U have repented... . we don't have baptism.
or if U want to be a Muslim it is not needed to do sth like baptism...

 

would U please read this link and tell me your opinion about it ? then I answer the other parts of your post completely?

http://www.kindfather.com/html/index.php?module=Pages&func=display&pageid=553

tanks

 

How is the Trinity 3 different Gods? The Father Son and Holy Spirit in Christian theology all have the same essence and nature. Im not that familiar with those religions, but with polytheistic religions, like the Ancient Greeks, the gods and goddesses are all different beings with their own characteristics-but that isnt the case with Christianity.

 

it is said:

now I ask " if they are distinct there is sth (some characteristic ) which makes them to be different from each other , what is that? is that perfection or incompetence ?
if it is incompetence so at least to of them are not God because they are not perfect and there is some incompetency in them. if it is a perfection again two other are not God because there is some perfection that they don't have it! "

 

well...
we I think one of the great difference between us is here.
in Islam we believe the faith that there is no reasonable idea to support it is not valuable .
Qur'an for many many times has blamed some one who don't try to think and understand.
n Islam it has been said if U think for 1 hour it is better than 70 years devotions.
say: are those who know and those who do not know alike? only the men of understanding are mindful (holy Qur'an 39 : 9 )
Allah will exalt those of you who believe, and those who are given knowledge, in high degrees; and Allah is Aware of what you do ( 58 : 11 )
(it is) a book we have revealed to you abounding in good that they may ponder over its verses, and that those endowed with understanding may be mindful (38 : 29 )
etc.
Qur'an tries a lot to make some one who are not believers to think and tries to bring reasons for them to guide to the true faith.
of course the value of cogitation in Islam is more than this in Islam any thing U fined out is sensible to do it become a part of your religious duty.
even it is said that Imam Sadiq said God has two prophet (to guide people) . one of them is your mind the other is God's messengers.

of course as a brief explanation I can say that means our existence depends on his existence and...
any way...

well it is what God does.and U know some part of Bible I think so clearly is talking a bout him.
exactly sth that it is said about Paracletes..

well I am a bout agree. but absolutely God wants us to do what he said in the best way that we can.

but dear want is the meaning of suffer?
when we want sth , we need sth , and we don't have that.or we can't have that.so we suffer
is it possible that powerful God be like that?!?!No!!

 

I don't understand!U believe Jesus Christ was God or not?I mean what was the body of holy Jesus Christ?(the body that was limited . changed , grown up , had different parts and etc.)
what is the meaning of father and son then?U say father , son , holy spirit are God.and they are distinct.so U have three person.don't U think that is union of paradox? who can U have unity and multiplicity in one person?

OK if we say that they are same and union in essence U can't not to say that they are three in person.obviously holy spirit is not Jesus and son is not father...
it is said:

if they are distinct there is sth (some characteristic ) which makes them to be different from each other , what is that? is that perfection or incompetence ?
if it is incompetence so at least one of them is not God because it is not perfect and there is some incompetency in him(then U can say the same thing about the other one and then you'll have only one of them perfect). and if it is a perfection again two other are not God because there is some perfection that they don't have it!

what is wrong with that?U believe in revelation.right?some special prophet Mohammad's revelation became Qur'an.
let me show U sth beutiful. (of course I don't want to prove any thing with that now.just nice to see...)
John 16 -
12“I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. 15All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”
holy Qur'n - chapter 53
nor does he speak out of desire (3 )
it is naught but revelation that is revealed, (4)
the lord of mighty power has taught him,(5 )

 

How is what youre saying about the Trinity different from what I was trying to say? I said that the members of the Trinity are one in essence and nature.

In pagan religions, each deity has a different essence-each controls a different aspect of nature. That's not the case in Christianity.

 

Very interesting. I knew the Quoran spoke of Jesus or Isa as a virgin born prophet and messiah who would return to earth, but I was not aware that the Quoran spoke of Jesus so extensively. Thanks for posting.

There seems to me to be much more in common between Islam and Christianity than differs, so why fight about it? But Shias fight Sunnis and Catholics fight Protestants over much more minute differences, and in my view it is usually cultural or land or other differences being fought over, while using religions as the vehicle.

 

First of all sorry for the late answer.

I read the link and I must say: that Priest your story describes is pretty rubbish. He doesn’t even know his Bible. Nowhere in the New Testament does it say that Jesus fasted every day. In the Bible He is said to have fasted for 40 days in the desert where He was tempted by the devil: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temptation_of_Christ

Without doubt Islam is to be respected for its very many great thinkers and promoters of reason. However, I don’t think even the Prophet Mohammed would claim to have enough reason to fully understand and explain God. No human has.

In this we are in full agreement.

Isn’t Allah the most compassionate? How could he not suffer with us?
I don’t think God has to suffer, I believe he chose to suffer. But note that God’s impassibility is discussed in Christianity and I’m more on Moltmann’s side than on Rahner’s.

Let me try to explain this way: ice, water and steam – are those three different substances or is it all H2O?

There’s nothing wrong with that and it’s beautiful to see how very much our respective Holy Scriptures correspond. The question was why you find it so unbelievable that God could have chosen to become a man in Christ, who according to scripture is the Word of God, when you find it believable that His very words could be spoken in a human language. And surely Arabic is human. Frankly I don’t see the difference: Both ideas anthropomorphise God to an extent. And maybe that is what’s necessary for us to take Him in.

I think religions are a bit like languages. You know yours better and I mine. But while we speak in different languages, I'm certain we are speaking about the same One God.