The Story of Jesus and Mary in the Holy Quran

hoorshid · Mar 15, 2015

The Amazing Sam's Ego said: ↑

How is what youre saying about the Trinity different from what I was trying to say? I said that the members of the Trinity are one in essence and nature.

In pagan religions, each deity has a different essence-each controls a different aspect of nature. That's not the case in Christianity.
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well...
I am talking about their numbers...
is this definition accepted?

The Christian doctrine of the Trinity (from Latin trinitas "triad", from trinus "threefold")[1] defines God as three consubstantial persons,[2] expressions, or hypostases:[3] the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit; "one God in three persons". The three persons are distinct, yet are one "substance, essence or nature".[4] In this context, a "nature" is what one is, while a "person" is who one is
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it is obviously talking about 3 person.OK their essence is same but they are 3.and that is contradiction.
as I explained it to junobet : " what is the meaning of father and son then?U say father , son , holy spirit are God.and they are distinct.so U have three person.don't U think that is union of paradox? who can U have unity and multiplicity in one person??
OK if we say that they are same and union in essence U can't not to say that they are three in person.obviously holy spirit is not Jesus and son is not father..." and etc.so there is paradox.and the only way to solve this paradox is to believe in 3 person as God.is this monotheism?!
and the other problem that I explained in ex_post for U shows God is not perfect in this view which is impossible for monotheism...

hoorshid · Mar 15, 2015

Iriemon said: ↑

Very interesting. I knew the Quoran spoke of Jesus or Isa as a virgin born prophet and messiah who would return to earth, but I was not aware that the Quoran spoke of Jesus so extensively. Thanks for posting.

There seems to me to be much more in common between Islam and Christianity than differs, so why fight about it? But Shias fight Sunnis and Catholics fight Protestants over much more minute differences, and in my view it is usually cultural or land or other differences being fought over, while using religions as the vehicle.
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yes Qur'an talked about him and his great mother a lot and also he is so respectable for us.one chapter in Qur'an is entitled by Mary (or as we say Mariam ) .
U can't imagine how it makes me angry and even some times cry when I see in some western country in the name of freedom speech they mock him.we love him as we love prophet Mohammad.

U are right we have a lot in common. and again U are right about wrong fights between people.
but now we are not fighting!!
I think it is so nice to discussed with people who have different belief.for me it is interesting.and so helpful in finding the true belief.and former I talked to Sunnis too..we can mention our idea with respect to the others beliefs. I think it helps a lot in ending some challenges that now exist.
U think if someones who burned Qur'an (who the last one was a priest if I don't make mistake ) know what Qur'an is saying a bout Jesus again he would do that?

hoorshid · Mar 15, 2015

junobet said: ↑

First of all sorry for the late answer.
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oh it does not matter dear I was so busy these days too...

junobet said: ↑

I read the link and I must say: that Priest your story describes is pretty rubbish. He doesn’t even know his Bible. Nowhere in the New Testament does it say that Jesus fasted every day. In the Bible He is said to have fasted for 40 days in the desert where He was tempted by the devil: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temptation_of_Christ
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well about this part I guess U didn't get the point!the main issue in this case was this : "for (pleasing) whom, did he fast and pray?!"at the time that U say he himself is God...
(also I dot think if Bible mentioned some special days that he has fasted for some reasons it means he didn't have fasted in the other days...of course it is marginal and not important in our discussion for now )

junobet said: ↑

Without doubt Islam is to be respected for its very many great thinkers and promoters of reason. However, I don’t think even the Prophet Mohammed would claim to have enough reason to fully understand and explain God. No human has.
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yes.also he had best understanding but U are right not fully understanding... but for proving God existence we don't need to have fully understanding.anyway...

junobet said: ↑

Isn’t Allah the most compassionate? How could he not suffer with us?
I don’t think God has to suffer, I believe he chose to suffer. But note that God’s impassibility is discussed in Christianity and I’m more on Moltmann’s side than on Rahner’s.
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yes he is most compassionate but as I explained for him suffering is impossible (as being material is impossible for him. we talked a bout it.if U remember. it is below his state and dignity) it is because he is free from any sort of needs...
also being compassionate is not always with suffering because suffering was a kind of God's grace for us because it makes us grow and cultivate that is not bad thing.

junobet said: ↑

Let me try to explain this way: ice, water and steam – are those three different substances or is it all H2O?
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OK.I accepted their same essence in your faith ( of course I still don't understand the body of Jesus which was absolutely material.but anyway by accepting that I asked that questions...
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junobet said: ↑

There’s nothing wrong with that and it’s beautiful to see how very much our respective Holy Scriptures correspond. The question was why you find it so unbelievable that God could have chosen to become a man in Christ, who according to scripture is the Word of God, when you find it believable that His very words could be spoken in a human language. And surely Arabic is human. Frankly I don’t see the difference: Both ideas anthropomorphise God to an extent. And maybe that is what’s necessary for us to take Him in.

I think religions are a bit like languages. You know yours better and I mine. But while we speak in different languages, I'm certain we are speaking about the same One God.
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oh dear when we say Qur'an is God's words it does not mean God has mouth (!!!!) and made some voice and words with that!!
at least a bout Shiites I know the real detailed faith in this case is that : "Qur'an actually is God's creation." ( of course some Sunnis have some problems with that.but our Imams mad it completely clear for us (=Shiites)... )
saying Qur'an is God's word is a figure of speech...(and choosing Arabic language had some reasons too...)

hoorshid · Mar 16, 2015

The Amazing Sam's Ego said: ↑

How is what youre saying about the Trinity different from what I was trying to say? I said that the members of the Trinity are one in essence and nature.
In pagan religions, each deity has a different essence-each controls a different aspect of nature. That's not the case in Christianity.
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junobet said: ↑

Let me try to explain this way: ice, water and steam are those three different substances or is it all H2O?
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I thought it may be good if I use this example to explain in easier way.
ice, water and steam those three are same substance.but they are different and distinct.what mad them distinct?they changed.what is impossible for God to change because that is in contradict with his perfection.the other way in such case can be division (to have 3 from 1 ) or another way is having different parts.in one thing ( to have 3 distinct things from one thing ) which again all these are impossible about God...

but the other thing that I like to add here is a bout God transfiguration.does it mean God has changed in to some thing else? I mean Father changed himself to Jesus?or no, it means Father is not Son (=Jesus) and Jesus himself is God?( I mean there are 2 Gods)
for God changing is obviously impossible.also becoming material is impossible.
so the only thing we can say is : " Father is God , Jesus is God , Holy spirit is God , and Father is not Son and etc". so we have 3 Gods!but even if we eliminate that ... , is it possible to say nothing about God changes but Father is God , Son is God , and Father is not Son?!?!is not it paradox?(like to say wood is wood , but wood is not wood!)

DennisTate · Mar 16, 2015

hoorshid said: ↑

part2:

Jesus the Prophet
Say, We believe in God and what has been revealed to us and what has been revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and to the prophet-descendants (of Jacob), and what has been given to Moses and Jesus, and what has been given to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims (in submission) to Him. (Quran 2:136)

Indeed, We have revealed to you (O Muhammad) as We revealed to Noah and the prophets after him. And We revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the prophet-descendants (of Jacob), Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon, and We gave the book to David. (Quran 4:163)

The Messiah son of Mary was only a messenger (like other) messengers that had passed away before him. And his mother was a strong believer.[1] They both used to eat food.[2] Look how We make the proofs clear to them, then look how they (disbelievers) turn away. (Quran 5:75)

He (Jesus) was only a servant whom We have favored, and We made him an example to the Children of Israel. (Quran 43:59)

The Message of Jesus
And in their (the prophets) footsteps, We sent Jesus the son of Mary, affirming the Torah that had come before him. And We gave him the Gospel, in it was guidance and light, affirming the Torah that had come before it, and a guidance and an admonition for the pious. (Quran 5:46)

O people of the Scripture, do not go to extremes in your religion, and do not say about God except the truth. The Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, is only a messenger from God and a word from Him (Be and it is), which He sent to Mary, and a soul from Him.[3] So, believe in God and His messengers, and do not say, Three. Stop, it is better for you. Indeed, God is one; exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And God is sufficient as a Determiner of all affairs. Never would the Messiah look down upon being a worshipper of God, nor would the angels who are close (to God).[4] And whoever looks down upon the worship of God and is arrogant, then He will gather them to Himself all together. (Quran 4:171-172)

This is Jesus, the son of Mary. And this is the statement of truth, which they doubt. It is not possible for God to take a son. Far is He above this! When He decides something, He just says to it, Be, and it is.[5] (Jesus said), And indeed God is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path. But the sects disagreed (over the straight path), so woe to the disbelievers from meeting a horrible Day. (Quran 19:34-37)

And when Jesus came with clear proofs, he said, I have come to you with prophethood, and to make clear to you some of what you disagree about, so fear God and obey me. Indeed, God is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. This is a straight path. But the groups disagreed among themselves (about the message of Jesus), so woe to those who disbelieved from the punishment of a painful Day. (Quran 43:63-65)

And (remember) when Jesus, son of Mary, said, O Children of Israel, I am the messenger of God to you confirming the Torah that came before me, and bringing good news of a messenger that will come after me, whose name will be Ahmad.[6] But when he came to them with clear proofs, they said, This is clear magic.[7] (Quran 61:6)

The Miracles of Jesus
So she pointed to him. They said, How can we speak to a child in the cradle? (Jesus) said, Indeed, I am a servant of God. He has given me the Scripture and made me a prophet.[8] And He has made me blessed wherever I am, and has commanded me to me pray and give charity as long as I remain alive. And (has made) me kind to my mother, and did not make me arrogant or miserable. And peace be upon me the day I was born, and the day I will die, and the day I will be raised alive. (Quran 19:29-33)

(More miracles have been mentioned under: The Good news of a new-born child)

The Table Spread (of food) from Heaven by Gods Permission
(And) when the disciples said, O Jesus, son of Mary, will your Lord send down to us a table spread (with food) from heaven? He said, Fear God, if you are indeed believers. They said, We wish to eat from it and have our hearts be reassured, and to know that you have indeed told us the truth and that we be witnesses to it. Jesus the son of Mary said, O God, our Lord, send us from heaven a table spread (with food) to be for us a festival for the first of us and the last of us and a sign from You. And provide for us, You are the Best of providers. God said, I am going to send it down to you, but if any of you after that disbelieves, then I will punish him with a punishment such as I will not put on anyone else. (Quran 5:112-115)

Jesus and His Disciples
O you who believe, champion Gods (religion), like when Jesus son of Mary said to the disciples, Who will champion Gods (religion) with me? The disciples said, We are the champions of Gods (religion). Then a group of the Children of Israel believed and a group disbelieved. So We supported those who believed against their enemy, and they became victorious.[9] (Quran 61:14)

And when I inspired the disciples to believe in Me and My messenger, so they said, We believe, and bear witness that we are Muslims (in submission to God). (Quran 5:111)

Then We sent after them Our messengers, and We sent Jesus (*)son of Mary, and gave him the Gospel. And We put in the hearts of those who followed him compassion and mercy. But We did not command monasticism, rather they invented it for themselves to please God with it, yet they did not observe it as it should be observed. So We gave those who believed among them their reward, but many of them are disobedient. O you who believe, fear God and believe in His messenger, He will then give you a double portion of His mercy, and give you light by which you can walk, and He will forgive you. And God is Most Forgiving, Most Merciful. (This We say) so that the people of the Scripture may know that they have no control over Gods favor, and that (His) favor is in His Hand to give it to whomever He wills. And God is the Owner of great bounty.[10] (Quran 57:27-29)

Footnotes:

[1] The Arabic word here indicates the highest level of faith possible, where the only one higher is prophethood.

[2] Both the Messiah and his pious mother used to eat, and that is not a characteristic of God, who does not eat nor drink. Also, the one who eats defecates, and this cannot be an attribute of God. Jesus here is likened to all the noble messengers that had preceded him: their message was the same, and their status as non-divine creatures of God is similar. The highest honor that can be afforded to a human is prophethood, and Jesus is one of the five highly regarded prophets. See verse 33:7 & 42:13

[3] Jesus is called a word or a soul from God because he was created when God said, Be, and he was. In that he is special, because all humans, except Adam and Eve, are created from two parents. But despite his uniqueness, Jesus is like everyone else in that he is not divine, but a mortal creature.

[4] Everything and everyone else other than God is a worshipper or a slave of God. The verse is asserting that the Messiah would never claim a status above that of a worshipper of God, dismissing any claim to the contrary of his divinity. And indeed he would never disdain such a position, because this is the highest honor any human can aspire to.

[5] If the creation of Jesus without a father makes him the son of God, then everything created like Jesus without a predecessor should be divine too, and that includes Adam, Eve, the first animals, and this whole earth with its mountains and waters. But Jesus was created like all things on this earth, when God said, Be, and he was.

[6] This is another name of Prophet Muhammad.

[7] This can refer to both prophets, Jesus and Muhammad, peace be upon them. When they came with the message from God to their people, they were accused of bringing magic.

[8] Prophethood is the highest and most honorable position a human can reach. A prophet is one who receives revelations from God through Angel Gabriel. A messenger is a prophet who receives a book from God, as well as laws to convey to his people. Jesus attained the highest honor by being both a prophet and a messenger.

[9] The victory of the believers came through the message of Islam, and it was a physical and a spiritual victory. Islam removed all doubt about Jesus and offered conclusive proofs of his prophethood, and that was the spiritual victory. Islam also physically spread, which gave the believers in the message of Jesus refuge and power against their enemy, and that was the physical victory.

[10] God gives guidance to whomever He wills, regardless of background and race. And when people believe, God honors them and lifts higher than everyone else. But when they disbelieve, God demotes them even though before they might have been honorable.

http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/622/
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Impressive posts Hoorshid!

My belief at this time is that a Muslim who truly believes what the Koran says about Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus - Issa as being the Messiah..... is a Christian........ and Christians who are willing to die for what they understand about Messiah Yeshua - Jesus - Issa..... are automatically Muslims..... by definition!

http://www.politicalforum.com/relig...d-son-good-prophet-prophet-muhammad-pbuh.html

I believe Abraham said "good son and good Prophet" to The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

If more Christian Mystics and even some Jewish Mystics will begin to discuss the theory that the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was in many ways a Prophet Like Unto Moses as well as perhaps King David or Elijah or the Patriarch Abraham reincarnated........ then peace will soon break out in the Middle East!!!!!!!!!

3. The Prophet Muhammad's Journey to Heaven

According to the Islamic legend called "Miraj," the Prophet Muhammad had an experience that is similar in many respects to a near-death experience. Muhammad is said to have ascended to heaven to visit the seven heavens [and, in some accounts, the fires of hell] in the company of the archangel Gabriel. In the Koran, Muhammad's enemies are quoted as saying that they would not believe him unless he ascends to heaven and brings down a book (Sura 17:92-95).

In Islamic legend, Muhammad is reported to have gone on a mysterious night journey into heaven. Islamic sources state this happened "in the spirit," his body remaining behind. In this legend, Muhammad is prepared for his meeting with God by the archangels Jibril and Mikail one evening while he is asleep in the Ka'bah, the sacred shrine of Mecca. They open up his body and purify his heart by removing all traces of error, doubt, idolatry, and paganism and by filling it with wisdom and belief. An animal by the name of Buraq, apparently horse-like and white, and with a human face, was provided for a ride from the mosque in Mecca to the al-Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem, from where he ascended, supposedly on a ladder of light to the seven heavens. In the first heaven Muhammad meets Adam; in the second, John the Baptist and Jesus; in the third, Joseph; in the fourth, Enoch; in the fifth, Aaron; in the sixth, Moses; and in the seventh, Abraham (who welcomed him as "Good son and good prophet").
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http://www.near-death.com/muslim.html

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The Story of Jesus and Mary in the Holy Quran

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