The mandate is over when the British turned the mandate over to the UN which then ended after Israel declared it's Independence and became recognized and part of UN. No one disputes that the goal of the mandate was a Jewish home in Palestine. That goal has been achieved since 1948 with Israel's founders and security experts agreeing that holding onto West Bank won't keep Israel as a democratic and Jewish state. Btw mandate document in final article does state what happens when mandate ends at will of mandatory(originally Britain then UN after they handed it over to them) "In the event of the termination of the mandate hereby conferred upon the Mandatory, the Council of the League of Nations shall make such arrangements as may be deemed necessary for safeguarding in perpetuity, under guarantee of the League, the rights secured by Articles 13 and 14, and shall use its influence for securing, under the guarantee of the League, that the Government of Palestine will fully honour the financial obligations legitimately incurred by the Administration of Palestine during the period of the mandate, including the rights of public servants to pensions or gratuities. " As I pointed out before this on the form, this is being done since religious sites are protected by Israel.
Your above paragraph is a contradiction in facts. The last few phrases that the experts supposedly mentioned. The experts do not speak for me and many millions of Israeli. The Mandate assigned <Palestine> <All of Palestine> as the National Home of the Jews and I do not see why you and others are interested to drive a wedge between them and their land since they consider this part of the world the inheritance of the Jewish people. Now pay attention to the word <perpetuity>... Perpetuity means continuous and <No End>... To keep Art 13 + 14 at perpetuity... And as Art 13 + Art 14 are part of the Mandate Articles means that the Mandate has never ended and is not bound to end in the near future. Thank you for the attention.
How is it a contradiction in facts? The British handed the mandate over to the UN which then proposed partition plan the Jews accepted Arabs rejected Israel declared it's Independence won the war and subsequently was recognized and became part of UN ending the mandate. I didn't say that the experts speak for you. Although their view that Israel can't hold onto West Bank forever do speak to many Israelis considering that in last election 69 seats (Joint List, Meretz, Zionist Union, Yesh Atid Kahlon, Yisrael Beitenu) belong to parties to various degrees don't support holding onto most of the West Bank(Shas which holds 7 seats many members of it also support Geneva initiative).They also have many of service in protecting Israel and contributing to Israel's development. The mandate doc never explicitly promised all of Palestine to Jews, it promised a Jewish home in Palestine with borders determined by mandatory, excerpt from mandatory doc listed below, also again mandate has been over since 1948. As mentioned many who have came to the view that Israel can't be a democratic and Jewish state at same time if it holds onto West Bank include those like Sharon, Livni, Olmert, Mofaz that for many years believed that Israel should keep the West Bank. The mandate clearly states it can end on the will of the mandatory which was the UN since the mandate was handed over to them by the UN Again it says ""In the event of the termination of the mandate hereby conferred upon the Mandatory" The perpetuity part is clearly not referring to mandate after all the mandate doc says in event of termination(something can't be perpetual and be terminated at the same time), the mandate system itself was temporary with French and British controlling the mandates until they could become independent which Israel has since 1948. The perpetuity part refers to articles 13 and 14 which deal with protecting religious sites which Israel does. Articles 13 and 14 are below ART. 13. All responsibility in connection with the Holy Places and religious buildings or sites in Palestine, including that of preserving existing rights and of securing free access to the Holy Places, religious buildings and sites and the free exercise of worship, while ensuring the requirements of public order and decorum, is assumed by the Mandatory, who shall be responsible solely to the League of Nations in all matters connected herewith, provided that nothing in this article shall prevent the Mandatory from entering into such arrangements as he may deem reasonable with the Administration for the purpose of carrying the provisions of this article into effect; and provided also that nothing in this mandate shall be construed as conferring upon the Mandatory authority to interfere with the fabric or the management of purely Moslem sacred shrines, the immunities of which are guaranteed. ART. 14. A special commission shall be appointed by the Mandatory to study, define and determine the rights and claims in connection with the Holy Places and the rights and claims relating to the different religious communities in Palestine. The method of nomination, the composition and the functions of this Commission shall be submitted to the Council of the League for its approval, and the Commission shall not be appointed or enter upon its functions without the approval of the Council. " The Council of the League of Nations: "Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have agreed, for the purpose of giving effect to the provisions of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, to entrust to a Mandatory selected by the said Powers the administration of the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed by them; and Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people" http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/palmanda.asp
Ethnic cleanse was what the Arabs promised the Jews if they dare to claim indipendance, ethnic cleanse was the name of the game in 1948, when was that law you talk about established ? It wasn't, the Jews starting point was 100% rightful, the Arabs started a war in order to ethnic cleanse the Jews and lost it, they raised the stakes and lost, the Israeli gain was rightful throu their own actions, call it Karma if you want. back when they decided this - the Arabs refused to fulfil their part of that "law" which is basiclly full recognition of Israel, when they were willing to talk about it in the early 90's, reality was diffrent, so now there is no more simple withdrawal. And there is no discussion about Jerusalem regardless of what anyone has to say on the matter.
Coming from a legal perspective on the fate of "lawless" land - unclaimed by any country, possibly on way to become one - one has to consider all legal entites that ruled the area, that includes the Mandate, Jordan occupation, Israeli occupation and Osslo accords.
The apartheid laws in Israel were made in 1950 banning Palestinians to return and thieve their property. They were made after the establishment of the right of return. And good job coming up with excuses of ethnic cleansing, claiming that Jews had no option but to go thieve from Arabs civilians when they terrorized them away.... years after the war. I call it Karma that Israel lives under non stop "terror" because those Jews in Israel refuse to return what they thieved. It is just as simple as withdrawing from Gaza. Just pack your bags and leave. It is also just as simple as packing and go back to the countries them Jews came from. Over a million Jews came between 1990 and 2001 instead of the Arabs who are banned by the Apartheidstate.
Israel doesn't have to under international law(again UNGA resolution 181 is not legally binding since it's general assembly resolution) nor should they to grant right of return. During that time period expulsion and population transfer(you ignore that similar number of Jews after 48 were expelled from Arab countries or fleeing under oppressive conditions and unlike Palestinians were absorbed and integrated into society with Jordan the only Arab country granting Palestinians citizenship). At the same time on a vastly larger scale with partition of India the same thing happened. It also happened earlier after WW2 with millions of Germans in Eastern Europe and earlier after WW1 with Greek-Turkish war. You saying that Israelis should leave they country they have become of if not born in Israel on the claim that Israel was born in sin is a double standard. Since many countries were born out of much greater sin ie United States, Australia etc. Even many of the countries born after World War 2 in an era with international law beside not having the same freedom and civil rights and living standard within Israel proper were established in cases of sin like Algeria(established after an eight year terrorist campaign by the FLN to get rid of French to be fair the French also committed atrocities during that war). Another point is that Israel was also established under fire with an inter communal civil war launched by Arabs after rejection of partition plan and escalated after invasion by five Arab countries after it declared it's Independence. While the Israeli claim that most of the Palestinians fled due to orders from their leaders is not true (as I pointed out on this forum Israeli military intelligence estimated from December 1 1947 to June 1 1948 that was significant in 5% of cases with fleeing due to Haganah/Irgun assaults the biggest factor). The Arabs still played a major role if not the biggest by rejecting partition plan shortly attacking Jewish civilians afterward in the inter communal civil war and five arab armies invading Israel after it declared it's Independence(it was after that most cases of expulsion happened as part of plan d which allowed to inhabitants of hostile villages to be expelled).
Like I said that was 1948-1949, there was no social media and no TV crews and no politiclly correct comments. The war with Jordan stopped, not with the PA, that continued under Jordan wings, terror attacks and counter attacks around the old city, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reprisal_operations So the war with them never stopped, the Internatinal law about land gain didnt apply to 1948 and its sheer madness to allow enemies sworn to kill you inside your newly created country, so that's that. Well there is that side as well, I agree Israel did what it could to benefit from the situation, missed some important chances for peace to vanity and today is blind to misery of the Palestinians which is partly responsible for, yes, that's also true. No it isn't....., its a diffrent story. lol that's cute its an Islamic fantasy, we are natives here, no where to go and no will either. They will go to a Palestinian state which could have been created decades ago, the objection is on the borders.
But what came after that to the WB wasnt acceptable by the UN, nor what follwed teh Jordinian occupation, its tricky busness, the only thing accepted by the PA was Oslo. now you can apply PA laws in area A.
Jews terrorized the Arabs away. That was one thing. Israel made it a just thing by law way after the war justifying the ethnic cleansing so it's Jews were able to thieve their properties in 1950. Did in 1950, when Israel made laws to ban Arabs from returning home for being Arab. Yes it is. And you aint a "native" when the only link is a religious one to claim.. yeah I'm off the Jewish faith so that land is mine because God said so in this book here where it approved genocide to claim this land. That is just that extreem Jewish racism that got 700.000 Arabs ethnic cleansed. And when Israel is able to take in a million Jews, than they can also take in a million Arabs. While them immigrants racist Jews can go back home and be racist there.
You act like the Arabs didn't commit any aggression during 48 war. The fact is that the Arabs rejected the UN partition plan and responded afterward with attacks on Jewish civilians by Arab irregulars. Israel's declaration of independence was met by an invasion of five Arab armies pledging to wipe out Israel with statements like Arab league head Azzam Pasha "This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades." The leader of Palestinians Mufti Amin Al Hussein during WW2 was a collaborator with Hitler.Again population exchange for that time period was normal happening on a much longer scale in partition of India, Greek-Turkish war, and Germans in Eastern Europe after WW2. In all these wars(including Jews/fled after 48 that you ignore) they aren't calling to return back to their homes since they have moved on and became integrated into society. I'm not saying that the Jews didn't commit atrocities or acts of expulsion during 48 war or before 48 with Irgun terrorist group. However to say the Arab side didn't commit any wrongs or contribute to 48 war is simply false.
You have no official figures of Arab Refugee... UNRWA figure was 450,000... the Arabs of surrounding countries augmented the numbers because UNRWA was giving away refugee help. (Everyone became a Refugee overnight listing himself and his multiple family with UNRWA...) Your above hateful exaggeration becomes dishonesty... Go check the figures and the reason why the Arabs left in such numbers... a) Because as transient workers they had no attachment to Palestine. b) They were not owners of properties (documented ownership)... the few who showed proof were compensated by Israel. c) What motivates the Arabs to deceit = takiyyah is the downfall of Israel.
Show me the money!!!! Show me proof!!! That your demagogic comment is the result of research backed by official documentation... Unless of course you are an authority of my country living in New York, which is very doubtful as professional, knowledgeable authorities know what they say without <blurting> a quarter of a phrase on this forum... I live here and I can say with authority that what you wrote has no value!!!
how much you wanna bet the UNRWA's final count on Palestinian refugees from the 1948 war was 750,000?
Completely irrelevant. It's still the Jews who ethnic cleansed Arabs and Israel made apartheid laws to specifically ban Arabs to return so they could thieve their property. - - - Updated - - - Totally irrelevant that the truth is, that Jews ethnic cleansed Arabs by the 100.000's through terror. And that Israel, years later after the war, made apartheidlaws to ban Arabs from returning so their properties could be thieved for the sake of the Jew.
I will do better that that... I will give you a civic lesson on the refugees from A - Z so you might learn something. The Arabs left their homes in 1947 - 49 for a variety of reasons. Thousands of wealthy Arabs from Haifa, Nazareth and other places left anticipating a war, thousands more responded to Arab leaders' calls to get out of the way of the advancing armies... Yes, sure a few were expelled, but most simply fled to avoid being caught in the cross fire of a battle. Many Arabs (like you) claim that 800,000 to 1,000,000 Arabs became refugees in 1947 - 1949. The last census was taken by the British in 1945... It found approximately 1,2 million permanent Arab residents in all of Palestine. In 1949 the Government of Israel census counted 160,000 Arabs living in the country after the war of 1947, a total of 809,100 Arabs lived in the same area... This meant no more than 650,000 Arabs could have become Refugees... A report by the UN mediator on Palestine arrived at an even lower figure - 472,000 and calculated that only about 360,000 Arab Refugees required aid. UNRWA figure was 450,000... the Arabs of surrounding countries augmented the numbers because UNRWA was giving away refugee help. (Everyone became a Refugee overnight listing himself and his multiple family with UNRWA...) BTW the British and Israeli censuses were official!
here's the bet: I bet you that the final official UNRWA Palestinian refugees number was 710,000. if I am wrong, I will leave the forum for a month. if YOU are wrong, you leave the forum for a month. deal?
How is Arab aggression during 48 war not relevant? By rejecting partition plan and then committing terrorist attacks against Jews(which you ignore) along with invading Israel(that is when most acts of expulsion were committed with primary cause for refugees was fleeing after Haganah/Irgun operations before ) after it declared it's independence they played a major if not a more significant role in the refugee crisis. You also ignore that Jews were cleansed in Arab countries after 48 either expelled or fleeing under oppressive conditions. Again that was the norm during time period with Germans from eastern Europe, Turks, Greeks,Pakistanis, Indians or Jews after 48 war not demanding right of return since they moved on and were integrated into their respective societies. You also ignore restrictive laws in places like Syria that bar Palestinians from employment nor were refugees given citizenship in any Arab country except Jordan.
As I pointed out on this form before most Arabs didn't flee on orders from Arab leaders. Historian Erkine Childers was unable to find any records of Arab leaders calling for them to flee based on a CIA monitoring station and BBC archives of radio broadcasts in that region during 48 war. This is also according to Haganah intelligence document "The emigration of Palestinian Arabs in the period 1/12/1948-1/6/1948" which estimated in cases from December 1947 to June 1948 that Arab leader's orders to flee were significant in 5% of cases. However you are correct that many did flee to avoid crossfire with Haganah estimating it that in 55% of cases it was due to Haganah operations and 15% due to Irgun/Stern Gang. Psychological warfare was significant in 1% of cases and explicit expulsion orders significant in 2% of cases. However after Arab invasion of Israel following it's declaration of independence acts of expulsion did increase as part of plan d which allowed for expulsion of nearby hostile Arab towns with most famous case of expulsion Lydda.
Because Jews turned Israel into an apartheid nation in 1950 when they banned Arabs from returning to their homes to thieve their property.
