Mike Huckabee Wonders why Liberals Count Suicides as Gun Deaths

What they're saying is that it's not murder.

 

Fine, in one column have murders, and in the other have suicides. Then add them for the gun death total.

 

Huckabee is much like a lot of the folks on this forum. For him, and them, "liberal" is a hugely generic catch-all term that refers to anybody not staunchly conservative. It's not even a proper descriptor of people anymore, it's just an insult. When someone starts talking about some thing "the liberals" are doing, I don't even know who they are actually talking about anymore. Generally the descriptions given for what a "liberal"n actually is does not match anyone I've ever spoken with.

So what I suggest is, since they're already using the word "liberal" as a stand-in for "boogeyman", do it right and start saying "Jabberwocky" instead. It sounds much more interesting, and accomplishes the same goal of confusion, exaggeration, and fantasy about the target of the word.

So, henceforth, "Liberals" are now "Jabberwocky's". Yes, it's a little more typing and an extra syllable, but if we're going to be engaging in fantasy fiction writing, lets make it interesting at least.

 

Fine as long as we can group abortions in with infanticides.

 

I'd like for them to be seperate just so we can better distinguish the statistics of gun violence against others vs. gun violence against oneself. They're two different subjects and deserve their own statistics.

 

Which is legally and biologically wrong, but continue to change the subject.

 

Imo it is very difficult to extract a convincing argument for this issue solely on statistics

Never the less, it stands to reason that a gun is a quick and easy means of suicide
I would prefer it to hanging, or Pesticides
So in all likelihood there is some greater rate of suicide when a gun is handy
BUT
it is hard to imagine any acceptable gun regulation that might change the suicide rate
So in the end, imo more pervasive gun ownership has a whole collection of collateral impacts...
And a somewhat increased suicide rate is just one of those impacts
Given the choices of our country, it is largely unavoidable
Regulations or not

 

Suicides are listed in the vital statistics, but an additional category, suicide by gun deaths, is seperate. It is not a question of what methed a person uses to commit suicides, but whether the person committing suicide via a firearm also commits homicide in the same act.

 

Actually it's really easy. Plenty of gun ban countries that have higher suicide rates than the USA. So mathematically if guns were the problem then the suicide rate in the USA would be the highest in the world. But since there are many first world countries with higher rates of suicide and all but no gun ownership. It's pretty easy to logically deduce gun ownership has no impact on suicide

 

You just over complicated a simple issue. Does the USA have a higher suicide rate then countrieswith no gun ownership. The answer is essentially no. Many of the worlds best economies with no gun ownership have higher rates of suicide. Therefore you can not come to the conclusion that gun ownership and suicide are linked

 

No, it is a tempting but false conclusion that you make
It is clearly true that he availability of guns is not the most important factor driving the suicide rate
In fact there are very many factors that contribute to the suicide rate
But, if those other factors were equal
The, availability of guns would have some impact
How large an impact is not clear

Rather than comparing this issue across countries...
Lets do it across states


When they looked at the 15 states with the highest firearm ownership, the researchers found that twice as many people committed suicide as in the six states with the lowest firearm ownership. The population in each group of states was about the same, the researchers said.

 

It may be a gun statistic, just like a person being run over by an automobile is a vehicle statistic. However, the way suicide by gun is presented is a statistic of "gun violence", which would be the same as auto accidents being listed as "vehicular violence."
It obfuscates the real issue and is only used to bolster the weak arguments of the gun grabbers.

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Ah,but see, if the suicide statistics don't fit your narrative, then blame "culture."

 

It's still not clear that the availability of guns "drives" the suicide rate at all, unless you mean "successful" suicide rate. What the study made clear is that the availability of guns means that suicide attempts are far more likely to be successful where there is more access to guns.

 

For me it seens pretty obvious
If you have an inclination to commit suicide
And have a gun handy
It is a quick, reliable, and available option

If you have no gun.... There is more planning required
And in making those arrangements
There is the chance that some people will re consider
Not to mention that other methods do in fact have a higher failure rate than a gun
You can jump off a bridge but it might not kill you
You can take drugs and wake up in the ER
I personally am not attracted to the idea of hanging myself
So that would give me 2nd thoughts
Most people do not have lethal drugs lying around
I am also not enthralled by the idea of drowning myself
Yada yada yada
If i had a gun and inclination.....no problems except to do it

But as i said
I think it does not matter since i can think if no regulation that would reduce the risk
While at rhe same tine be remotely politically acceptable

 

The problem with your thinking is that that the best economies have gun ownership, but that gun ownership is much lower. There is essentially almost no country that has zero gun ownership except may two.

Suicides by guns take special importance because of our culture and how we view guns. The problem with the right's argument is two fold: one, any link to firearm deaths by mental issues, including suicides is to be discouraged, dismissed, dismayed, or ignored. And second, suicides by firearms is starting to creep with an additional category called suicide-homicide rates.

 

Alwayssa, why do your fear guns so much? Is it a Freudian thing? Can't handle a little recoil? I've carried one daily for ages and they have saved me several times. Respect the gun, don't fear it. I guess I wear Big Boy pants.

 

I do not fear guns, I own a few myself and even have a CCW.

 

Proves? Really? Japan has 50% more suicides than the US yet almost no guns. Go figure. That's pretty weak in the proof department.

 

Well it is not going to be classified as gun love. Petty semantics to the extreme.

 

/thread

And they're supposedly far more intelligent than us, too=)

 

Lets just cut through the horse crap. You want to link suicides with murder to make your agenda point. The reality is the mathematics does not equal the logic you are trying to twist into a warped point about the supposed evil of gun ownership. This is why gun owners fight gun banners tooth and nail folks. Because it cant be done honestly or with a real look at the information. Its twisted and illogical.

 

No, that is not the case. I want to link mental health issues with suicides for the sole purpose that UBC can prevent some of these from happening. Let's look at the Virginia Tech shooter, shall we. When he applied for the purchase of the handgun, he stated he has not had a history of mental illness or was currently or have taken any prescription drugs that dealt with suicidal thoughts. Technically, he lied, but there was no way to know that through the background check. The background check does not check for mental health issues IN THAT STATE. So, it came clean. If UBC was used and had the ability to check the prescription database in that state, at least there was a possibility and even a distinct probability that the purchase would have been denied.

 

Or a bottle of Tylenol, aspirin, bleach, sticking your head in the oven, hanging yourself from a door knob with a towel, razor blades long ways and deep, drain cleaner, jumping off your house head first onto your side walk, slitting your own throat, needle filled with a bit to much of heroin, etc etc.

Guns make up half of the suicide rate, and I'm sure those that intend to end their lives will use one of the items listed above to get the job done.

 

Here is something interesting that lists the most lethal methods of suicide. Warning, have to be over 18 to view the site.

Aspirin poising has about a 2% mortality rate and one would have to be allergic to heparin for it to be effective. But all the methods you used takes some time and forethought before committing the act, like Robin Williams who hanged himself while sitting and closing the door.

 

It takes time and forethought to walk into your laundry room, grab a bottle of bleach, and drink it?

Either way why do you care? It's none of your business if someone wants to end their life? It's their life, their decision. Or are we so enslave we can't even decide if we want to be here or not?