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I’m an Oregon rancher. Here’s what you don’t understand about the Bundy standoff

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Space_Time, Jan 8, 2016.

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  1. Teilhard

    Teilhard New Member

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    He has been President of The United States … not "president of [ ….. ]," no matter how much so many hoped he would be on THEIR side to the exclusion of *those*other*people* …
     
    Teilhard, Jan 12, 2016
    #101
  2. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    No where in the Constitution or in the Anglo-Saxon common law is anyone allowed to claim "self defense" when committing a crime.
     
    Mr_Truth, Jan 12, 2016
    #102
  3. Vernan89188

    Vernan89188 Well-Known Member

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    Really? Whoms jobs are illegals really stealing? Not mine...yours? What do you actually do then that is worth pennys on the dollar.
    http://www.voanews.com/content/us-farmers-depend-on-illegal-immigrants-100541644/162082.html
    Seems to me you ranchers are pissed off you cant farm USA land for free...too bad so sad, nether can I.
    The government even gave you people immunity to min wage, and even let your kids drive farm EQ, and unlicensed with impunity...but wtf you want more. Farming is a life style..if you cant live up to it..deal with the consequence.
    Seems to me Them hard working illegals, they are taking up the slack of lazy Americans.
    I admire farmers, we need what you produce., but quit bi$%hing. It's what I pay taxes for,.
     
    Vernan89188, Jan 12, 2016
    #103
  4. Regular Joe

    Regular Joe Well-Known Member

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    Perfect! Since you have the answer, how 'bout you send a few million over to the Bundy bunch so they can get the legal ball rolling. Legal recourse is prohibitively expensive, and therefore not an option to these guys. So sorry to hurt your pretty little head with this thinking thing.
     
    Regular Joe, Jan 12, 2016
    #104
  5. Teilhard

    Teilhard New Member

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    If the Bundy guys and others similarly situated are unable to retain counsel it means they don't have much chance to prevail …

    If they don't have a good case, they need to move on and stop feeding at the public (land) trough ...
     
    Teilhard, Jan 12, 2016
    #105
  6. Regular Joe

    Regular Joe Well-Known Member

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    Do you have even the remotest clue as to how cattle ranching works? PUBLIC land is used for grazing, which in turn FEEDS the PUBLIC. There are huge expenses and work requirements in addition to that, which the Cowboys do and pay for, at a very low margin of profit.
    You obviously don't know how the world works.
    Don't tell me that the people who keep it working for you are moochers of any kind.
     
    Regular Joe, Jan 13, 2016
    #106
  7. tennisdude818

    tennisdude818 Banned at Members Request

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    That's useless information when looking at self defense from government. Naturally the government that is assaulting you doesn't recognize your self defense as legitamite self defense. Doesn't mean I agree with these guys but your post didn't add anything.
     
    tennisdude818, Jan 13, 2016
    #107
  8. Teilhard

    Teilhard New Member

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    I served a parish in a very rural area for twelve years, so yes, I understand the entanglements of agriculture, public policy, and cheap food in America …

    I also have no sympathy for bandit thugs who think that a "lease" conveys "ownership" …

    I have no sympathy for guys who expect to prevail in a controversy by illegally seizing public assets and threatening the rest of us with guns …

    Sorry, no …
    My preference in this case is to send in the US Marshals and stop mollycoddling these seditious thieves …
    (go and study up: "Whiskey Rebellion"; and "Barbary Pirates" …)
     
    Teilhard, Jan 13, 2016
    #108
  9. Regular Joe

    Regular Joe Well-Known Member

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    OK.
    I'll leave your history notes alone though. Study up on the whole Bundy situation that happened last year. BLM trying hard to end the beef industry in Nevada because Harry Reid and his cronies "need" to profit from selling public interests to the Chinese. That's only part of it. Find out what these guys are trying to prove before you burn them at the stake.
     
    Regular Joe, Jan 13, 2016
    #109
  10. Teilhard

    Teilhard New Member

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    The Bundy Clan has been refusing to pay rent for a number of years …

    Sen. Harry Reid is not going to receive personal $$$profits$$$ from this dustup …

    But, yes … I have long been aware that many farming/ranching practices in America -- on both private and public land -- are environmentally disastrous and must be either reformed or stopped ...
     
    Teilhard, Jan 13, 2016
    #110
  11. Regular Joe

    Regular Joe Well-Known Member

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    For as long as you prefer to remain ignorant, your opinion can only remain ignorant.
     
    Regular Joe, Jan 13, 2016
    #111
  12. Teilhard

    Teilhard New Member

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    Look … it is now the 21st Century …

    Guys like the Bundys and the Hammonds will either adapt, or not …

    If they can no longer make a living by ranching on MY land which they lease from ME, they are FREE to move into town and get other work ...
     
    Teilhard, Jan 13, 2016
    #112
  13. Lee S

    Lee S Moderator Staff Member Past Donor

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    To say that the farmers are getting grazing rights for free is tremendously misleading and ignores the cadastral history of the land. Since I work with cadastral history on a daily basis let me help you out in the case of the farmers in Burns.

    In the 1840s, much of the west was claimed by England, the United States, Spain and Mexico. In order to settle these international claims, the United States government passed the Land Grant Act of 1850 in order to put Americans into vast empty stretches of the west. The donation Land Grant Act provided a married couple with 320 acres of land for free if the couple could survive the rigors of life, build a farmstead, and meet certain requirements. The 320 acres may seem like a lot, and in the lush Willamette Valley it was completely adequate, but that little land in Nevada or Eastern Oregon ensured starvation and nothing much more. Since it was important to settle all of the West, the federal government set up an arrangement in which ranchers could get their donation land claims but that land was surrounded by thousands of acres of federal land which the government allowed grazing for free to the claim owners and their ancestors, forever.

    Since the government land office did not have legislative authority to give the claim owners more than the 320 acres, they made the agreement with the full knowledge of the government but there were no deeds licenses, patents, or easements which were conveyed in writing, but the Federal Government always honored the agreements until recently. So the ranchers did in fact pay for the rights in that they settled some pretty inhospitable territory and survived. The federal grazing land is part of America, and not Britain, Spain or Mexico. precisely because the ancestors of the ranchers settled the land and often times died on the land because life was so harsh. They fulfilled their end of the bargain and the United States should fulfill their end.

    Of course, one could say the ranchers got nothing in writing. This is true, but neither did the American Natives and I think most people today see the breaking of deals and treaties with the American Indians as an evil act that rightfully should have been resisted. I don't see a whole lot of difference between the relied upon, acquiesced to, and accepted deals that the Indians and the ranchers got.
     
    Lee S, Jan 13, 2016
    #113
  14. Regular Joe

    Regular Joe Well-Known Member

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    I'm done with this, since you refuse to comprehend the case in discussion.
    People eat something like 4 million cattle every year. Where do you propose these cattle come from, if not from "YOUR" Gov. land?

     
    Regular Joe, Jan 13, 2016
    #114
  15. Teilhard

    Teilhard New Member

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    Public land is public land … What's your point … ???

    Yes, lots of cattle ranching is done on land that is LEASED from "the public," i.e., from ME … (but cattle are raised on private land, too … duh) ...
    "Lease" means that the user pays RENT … and is NOT "renting to own" …
    (hint: it's like "renting" a house rather than buying/owning it outright … What do you not get about that … ???)

    If the Hammonds / Bundys no longer want to pay rent, I want them evicted from MY land … (signed) "John Q. Public"
     
    Teilhard, Jan 13, 2016
    #115
  16. Regular Joe

    Regular Joe Well-Known Member

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    Last time. You refuse to do your own due diligence and actually LEARN what this is about. Do that, and we can talk. Until then, I'm ignoring you.

     
    Regular Joe, Jan 13, 2016
    #116
  17. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have relatives who raise cattle
    On their own land
     
    ARDY, Jan 13, 2016
    #117
  18. Regular Joe

    Regular Joe Well-Known Member

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    Fine. Their contribution to the food supply is needed and good, but just as it is with many other things in a country of 330 Million people, we absolutely, positively NEED a diversity of sources for absolutely every tiny little thing.
     
    Regular Joe, Jan 13, 2016
    #118
  19. godisnotreal

    godisnotreal Well-Known Member

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    People need to WAKE UP!!!
    Do you really think that in a country as vast as the united states, that LAND is the limiting factor here? Do you really think that ranchers have low profit margins cause land is in short supply? Gimme a break.

    The reason why ranchers have low profit margins is because the price of cattle is low. But how can the price of cattle be low when the price of beef is high? Who determines the price off cattle and the price of beef? Could it be the large corporations that process the cattle and turn it into beef?

    The real reason why ranchers are struggling is because the large corporations that process meat have a monopoly, and so they set the prices. So they're taking money out of the pockets of ranchers and consumers and putting it into the pockets of CEOs and company executives. That's how the rich get richer while the middle class and poor get poorer in this county.

    And we're all here squabbling about land.
     
    godisnotreal, Jan 13, 2016
    #119
  20. Bluespade

    Bluespade Banned

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    Thanks for the display of lack of reading comprehension.
     
    Bluespade, Jan 13, 2016
    #120
  21. Bluespade

    Bluespade Banned

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    Dumb deflection is dumb deflection. You don't know what you're talking about, just stop already.
     
    Bluespade, Jan 13, 2016
    #121
  22. Bluespade

    Bluespade Banned

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    97% of ranches and farms are family owned.:rolleyes:
    http://www.cattlenetwork.com/news/industry/usda-97-percent-us-farms-are-family-owned
     
    Bluespade, Jan 13, 2016
    #122
  23. Bluespade

    Bluespade Banned

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    You move your heard no matter what. It doesn't matter if you're turning out seasonally or not.
     
    Bluespade, Jan 13, 2016
    #123
  24. Bluespade

    Bluespade Banned

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    This is where Dollface, and her fellow bootlickers get blasted into the internet oblivion, by a simple google search.


     
    Bluespade, Jan 13, 2016
    #124
    RP12 likes this.
  25. Lee S

    Lee S Moderator Staff Member Past Donor

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    In some parts of the country, that is indeed possible and profitable. In Nevada, Eastern Oregon, and other parts of the country it is not.
     
    Lee S, Jan 13, 2016
    #125
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