Trump proved today that the pro-life political movement is utter bull(*)(*)(*)(*)

The fact that he was criticized by the entire GOP establishment for saying that women who illegally receive abortions should be punished shows what a complete charade the so-called pro-life movement really is. If they aren't held criminally liable then they are making a choice and you're effectively pro-choice for a woman's decision since there are no legal consequences. Even bible-thumping Ted Cruz came out against Trump's call for punishment today. It shows that the GOP political class isn't really against abortions, it's just red meat for the base. They're effectively all pro-choice pretending to be pro-life. If they were truly pro-life and against abortions then there would be serious consequences for women who illegally received them. However, they clearly don't believe abortion is anywhere close to the equivalent of murder and are completely out of touch to a significant chunk of the base they've been pandering to all of these years. The question is, will the electorate realize that the GOP is effectively as pro-choice as the Democrats?

 

Who are the women getting illegal abortions? If this is an issue, I've never heard of it.

 

get back on the range, dude, your rage can't tell us about anything you're so confused about.

 

Actually, no. What it really showed is how polarized the position is. It's not so much for abortions to be wrong(though one would hold them to be morally wrong), as much as it is undesirable. If you're having an abortion, you're almost ALWAYS having it for a negative reason. Abortion is not a positive, abortion does not create anything for women. The very term "pro-choice" is trying to add a positive(choice) to a negative(abortion), which is laughable on its face.

It's also the reason that Abortion has not truly been sanctioned in the hearts and minds of the people. It's a last resort, and always should be used as such. If you're having an Abortion because of rape, incest, threat to the mother those are negative reasons. Economic concerns? Also negative. Abortion is the sore that shows all of the wounds of the United States. Which is why the countries with the highest abortion rates also happen to not coincidentally be the POOREST.

Trying to create a positive argument for Abortion, which short circuits our overall human lifespan is an almost impossible task. The real issue at hand, lies making this positive argument. People don't want to "punish" women for abortions, but they don't desire abortions. I mean, rightfully so. It's like the dinosaurs desiring for the meteors to have crashed on the earth.

You won't make a positive argument for Abortion for religious fundamentalists. The best you can hope for, is to argue for the reduction in abortion rates and that if the birth rate is far superior to that rate, it would constitute a country that values life. But for those moderates? I can make the argument that our economic gains for ALL sectors of the US mainland would significantly reduce abortion rates, as well as strengthen family life in America.

And I'd make the argument that reforms to finally equalize men and women in the abortion discussion would finally make Abortion sacrosanct in American life. Now it has a real positive character to it, known as population control. Well, depending on your term of "positive". Not everyone would be happy, but most would. You just have to ignore the religious zealots and the women who think with their uterus's who want to maintain an imbalanced system for them.

 

There are late term abortions that are currently illegal. If they expanded the laws to no exceptions other than rape, incest, and the life of the mother there would be even more illegal abortions.

 

Not raged at all, just calling it what it is. If you're going to make most abortions illegal and you're not going to punish women who have illegal abortions, then you're effectively pro-choice since there's no consequences for her action just as if it were legal. Without punishing the woman the pro-life movement is a giant con.

 

it's all sleazy politics... GOP rivals probably agree with what Trump said but taking the opportunity to bash him. Demos are just doing what they are supposed to do - exaggerate things, making it sound like Trump was asking for jail time for women who didn't even break the law. The media is also taking things out of context and blowing things out of proportion... and guess what, everyone is just dismissing the most important part of this whole thing - Trump's clarification after the interview. It's amazing to me that 2-3 seconds of an interview during which Trump clearly was answering a question he hadn't thought through thoroughly, can become such an enormous issue. What's important is what his position actually is, and he clarified it.

 

Any punishment for abortion that excludes the father is misogynist claptrap.

 

I assume that if the father forces the mother to get an abortion through threats or bribes her into getting one then yes, he's responsible too. If the father played no part in it, then he would not be.

 

Since Row vs. Wade abortions are not illegal in the US. What the anti-abotion forces want to do, obviously, is to make abortion illegal again in this country.

I believe that The Weasel and gaboomkas like Mike Huckleberry who was on Morning Joe a little while ago are part of that gang that wants to over-turn Roe vs, Wade.

 

The premise is hypothetical, but you do make a point in that both the doctor performing the abortion and the woman receiving the abortion are participating in the hypothetical crime. As such, they should both have a consequence for breaking the hypothetical law, or otherwise there is no teeth to the law. That being said, I don't see abortion being made completely illegal, so the consequences are moot. Trump shouldn't have answered the question since it was hypothetical.

I see a similar situation in private gun sales that do not require a background check only holding the felon or insane person accountable for breaking the law and not the seller, even though the seller is participatory in the crime of selling a gun to someone that cannot legally buy one. As long as there is no consequence for the seller, there is no teeth in the law, so felons, terrorists, and the mentally insane can buy a gun anonymously.

As far as the GOP's stance on abortion, I believe most of it was lip service to add single issue/ Religious Right voters to the party. The GOP can't maintain diametrically opposed positions that small government is good, but want governmental interference or control in women's medical issues. Some will see that and some won't. People see what they want to see in politics. That's why so many feel betrayed by the GOP. They believed what candidates promised, even though they didn't have a veto proof majority to accomplish it and therefore was impossible to do. They weren't betrayed. They were ignorant of how government works and the candidates didn't explain it.

 

right, hes only there to hand over his paycheck, he doesnt even get a choice.

 

"If abortion is ever made illegal then yeah law breakers will be punished. Not tough stuff here folks." ~ Trump

 

If idiots got paid for stupidity would they work anywhere else other than msnbc?

 

Trump exposed the cons attempts to criminalize women and their doctors. Concentration camps? The death penalty? The GOP will have to spell it out over the next six months. LOSERS!

 

Evidently only hysteria is important to you. Facts certainly aren't.

 

oh i know, clearly the pro-death political movement is vastly superior.

 

The point is that there really is no "pro-life" movement being put forth by our politicians. It's a giant con and it's nothing more than red meat. If politicians were serious about being pro-life then women who receive illegal abortions would be held liable.

 

It seems to be the dogma of some religions, even in modern times, and with our secular and temporal, Constitutions.

Purely religious laws should be enforced by Religious authorities. We could be lowering our Tax burden by cost shifting to Religion, purely religious crimes.

 

Or, should we hold less developed economies responsible for letting their citizenry starve to death by not being more socialist and having welfare, as we currently know it.

The Right's, "work or die" ethic is worse than abortion.

 

I get it, you're pro-life. Shouldn't the woman be punished if abortion were outlawed?

 

It is interesting how after both parties decide to have sex and an accident happens, the woman is in complete control of whether or not the baby is born and whether or not the man must pay up for the next 18 years.

 

I believe the Right should stop complaining about the cost of an ounce of prevention, if they are also going to complain about the cost of a pound of cure.

 

should rapists get tax breaks and presents?