Why do political ideologues seem so dumb?

If you read the posts by the most ideologically opinionated in this forum, most of them come across as barely able to express themselves in the English language. Did they fail to graduate high school? They not only write ungrammatical sentences using grade school vocabulary, they fail to underpin their bizarre opinions with facts.

Even when it comes to professional ideologues, not all of them seem to have much between the ears. Have you listened to Mitch McConnell lately? Most of what he says makes no logical sense. He may have been smart at one time, but now he comes across as cognitively impaired. To be fair, if I were Nancy Pelosi, I would not be sitting next to the phone waiting for a call inviting me to join American Mensa. She is far from being the brightest star in the heavens.

On the other hand, Paul Ryan and Harry Reid do come across as people of normal intelligence. Yes, both are very partisan, but that's how they make a living. I wonder if either of them would stick so closely to the ideology of their respective parties if they were not earning a living by doing so.

 

To be fair, there are quite a few foreigners posting here, so that could be responsible for a degree of what you see.

There is also another element of covert agents that churn out vitriol steadily as bait or fuel for sensationalist controversy that other of their kind bump with short posts to fill up the first page with uselessness. I don't think they care much about what they write, because they know the false group will post reciprocally in the thread to make it look like valid discussion.

I also would not be surprised if there are a few support bots that provide filler for those threads. Three covert agents with 3 bots apiece can keep a forums first page flipping with BS for the better part of a day without appearing overly false.

It's all about filling the forum with nonsense, making it look like a busy, happening place while also pushing out meaningful discussion that might create understanding or some unity around accurate perspective.

They appear to mostly know who each other are and the amount of duplicate threads indicate that some share a resource for sensationalist stories that have the right controversies that can be woven into partisanship issues that have potential to impart a sense of reality to them.

And, there is little doubt in my mind that some of the professional politicos know this is going on and will occasionally feed the AstroTurf machine when it might benefit them.

One thing is for sure, it's hard to imagine a sincere group of real Americans that would rally most of the falsely popular topics promoted here to the degree seen in these forums. Either my speculation describes a reality or there are far more stupid, obsessive and rude people concentrated here than one could normally find in an average slice of the American public.

 

That is a pretty smart assessment and seems to be equal parts of both scenarios by my observations.

 

With the exception of a few mainland Europeans, most 'foreigners' are of English speaking backgrounds. They are mainly Brits, Canadians and Australians.

 

I come here to just relax and engage in some discussion so I don't worry about what my writing looks like. I try to put up cohesive arguments but it's not a college paper I am writing.

If I misspell something I rarely bother correcting it, I don't use a thesis or topic sentences because all of that is just too much work and not fun.

 

I think that you have too high an expectation of your peers if you want a rational discussion of issues. It's inevitable that those who are more radical on particular issues are going to write more and be more obnoxious while writing. If someone is not heavily invested in a topic, they may offer a opinion or argument and move on. The other issue is education. Anecdotally, I find that less educated people are more tied to ideology. Therefore, those more invested in "their side" are the ones who write incoherently and are often the most vitriolic and anti-intellectual. It's all a little crazy, and it is not really practical to argue with craziness.

Remember that the information from this site is worth what you paid for it. As long as you are here, sit back and plumb the depths of human stupidity. My favourites are currently the trans-haters and the Russian troll army. Sometimes there is useful information. When I was studying comparative Westminster Politics at university, I finally understood the byzantine MMP electoral system used in New Zealand.

 

Because the most vocal and active here are paid to do it. You can track the talking points. I think it's a side job for college students or something to do as they look for a job.

You need only watch as they can't answer specific questions when they're confronted. You know it's a troll or a bot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

There seems to be a small group who believe that most people posting on PF are just pretending to be from the US. I don't think they have any hackers in this small group because they try to judge them by catching them saying things that 'no one in the US' would ever say.

Which is ridiculous, but I guess its better than someone trying to uncover IP addresses.

 

They seem to be people that are most influenced by the propaganda machines out there.

Many people, maybe most people, want to believe that in anything there is a right and wrong side. Once they pick a side they become susceptible to the misinformation that supports it. Then they regurgitate that misinformation here.

You'd be deluding yourself if you think your side is completely innocent when it comes to misinformation tactics. Everyone does it because it influences people, people are not moved by 'grey areas' or 'complex issues', they are moved by heros and villains.

Mostly these days we hear about the villains. Current propagandist are somewhat equally matched, and in cases where this happens its much easier to play on peoples fears than their hopes. Fear has a way of persisting even when factually inconsistent, hope is fragile and requires constant bolstering even when obviously real.

Heros represent hope, they are leaders we can safely put trust in, but in the current political environment they are technically extinct.

 

Now, with me it is just the opposite. I enjoy crafting a well constructed sentence and finding just the right word to express an idea.

But I was influenced by a professor who thought that slovenly grammar indicated slovenly thinking.

 

Ideology should never trump Pragmatism, but the left ideologues are far more removed from Pragmatic thought then are the Rightist Ideologues.

 

The first clue that you are out of your depth is that you think Mitchell is any sort of ideologue. He makes no sense largely because he inhabits an ideological no man's land. He's a subset of what 40 years ago were called Scoop Jackson Democrats.

 

I don't even notice the significant number of exact duplicate threads posted until I got thoroughly disgusted with the nonsense topics and started digging back into the forums for meaningful threads. Identical titles, text and all are buried back there.

The infiltration is a free for all, not even poorly managed.

It is pretty clear the agents have a common source and do not bother coordinating their uses of it. Either that or the average American is a part of a collective consciousness that only focuses on sensationalist trivia which is meaningless and get a real thrill out of repeating what their fellow citizen says, word for word.

 

I'm still undecided how many "agents" you might have working a site such as this. But I do believe that ideologues...especially those on the right...tend to be sheep, who get all their information from the same sources (Breitbart, in particular) and hum the same tunes...over and over again. The number of duplicate threads is annoying, true, but easily ignored.

What I find more disturbing, however, is the number of participants who come here strictly to agitate and provoke others by spewing unadulterated bigoted rhetoric and conspiratorial nonsense. Many appear to come from fringe hate sites, such as Stormfront, Daily Stormer, VNN, and others (at least one has actually admitted to doing so). I understand the slippery slope of policing speech on a forum dedicated to political discussion, but it's no secret who these posters are; they are all known to the site mods and administrators.

The fact that they are allowed to continue posting with seeming impunity here does not reflect well on the PF community at all, IMO.

.

 

I saw an interesting Bill Maher show, with the Dilbert cartoonist, Scott Adams. It was the first time I was inspired to watch the "Overtime" youtube show extension. I didn't know until I saw that show that Scott Adams is professionally trained as a hypnotist and is a master of persuasion. He mentioned several things that Trump is using that are straight out of persuasive technique textbooks, and said using those techniques, he projected Trump would win the White House. I'm not convinced that Trump is going to take the White House, but he did say that about 20% of people can be convinced of anything using persuasive techniques. They can be made true believers, and he even discussed how the techniques could be used to counter ISIS indoctrination. If people want to believe something, they will maintain belief, even in the presence of incontrovertible evidence to the contrary. They would rather believe what logic and evidence shows them to be a fantasy, than agree that they are wrong, if they are a true believer. I think those steeped heavily in ideology may fall into that 20%.

As to the OP's question, ideologues seem "dumb" to me because that they often put their beliefs ahead of humanity and the human condition.

 

I think your professor was right on the mark!

 

Nancy Pelosi? Harry Reid? what the hell is the difference? they're both tyrants.

Did you see that gavel Pelosi carried up into congress when they passed Obamacare? now that is an ideologue if I ever saw one.....

 

Maybe with progressives..... Those clowns are usually paid to post on facebook er spam it.

As a libertarian I don't know of anyone that was ever paid to post a single thing...... Hell, I wish I could get paid posting what I post but....

If anything talking politics gets annoying... That's why I enjoy posting in the alternative forums.

 

I've read several times in several threads that people are paid to post to this forum. Usually the accusation is that the Clinton campaign is paying for postings. I would like to see some evidence of that. It's difficult for me to believe that a political campaign would pay for ungrammatical, ideological, unconvincing blather. When I post, I have no expectations of changing anyone's opinions. Most people who post to this forum (present company excepted) seem to have very ingrained opinions and to be highly resistant to any ideas that conflict with their prejudices. I think that paying people to post to this forum would be about as helpful as throwing the money down a rat hole, and therefore I can't imagine that anyone would do it.

 

I think the idea is not to change minds, but to bolster the wavering. The constant drumbeat of revelations about Hillary's email server really ought to give thoughtful people pause. But the shills come in and intimate that anybody who even doubts for an instant Hillary's integrity is the foulest sort of human imaginable and so keep the liberals on the reservation, so to speak.

That is why they use so much shaming language, and use it so intemperately.

 

I don't see it, tbh. It still amounts to preaching to the converted, and such efforts would probably pay off much better on Facebook and other types of social media.

When it comes to the right-wing noise machine here, however, I believe what we're seeing basically boils down to cheerleader tryouts. Not surprisingly, participants in both activities display the same intellectual depth.

 

Why would you pretend you're from the US? Boggles the mind.

 

I guess they either think its some sort of troll tactic, or they have a comical degree of paranoia.

Its a suspicion of some that Russia at least has a crazy PR branch that uses internet forums to spread propaganda. Considering their leadership its possible. Big crazy egos do really random and unpredictable things.

 

Didn't you say almost the exact same line in another post? What are the odds that the 2 of you had the same professor?

 

Hmmm, a major misrepresentation. Exactly the kind of thing agents do. A form of idealogical mirroring.

Seeing as you have not shown the accountability needed to prove you are a sincere American, you position is deeper in question than ever.

Only a sincere American will agree with and accept the definitions of prime constitutional right shared with these inquiry. What is your answer?

Do you agree and accept that the framers of the founding documents intended for us to alter or abolish government destructive to our unalienable rights?

Do you agree and accept that the ultimate purpose of free speech is to enable the unity adequate to effectively alter or abolish?