NATO says no 'meeting of minds' with Russia

NATO says no 'meeting of minds' with Russia

Danny Kemp•July 13, 2016
Brussels (AFP) - NATO and Russia failed to overcome deep differences over Ukraine Wednesday in their first talks since the alliance approved a troop boost in Eastern Europe, alliance chief Jens Stoltenberg said.

Russia proposed steps to improve air safety over the Baltics after a series of military near misses but Stoltenberg admitted there was "not a meeting of minds" on the Ukraine conflict.

Moscow's ambassador to NATO said the planned deployment in its Soviet-era backyard was "excessive" and accused the US-led alliance of fomenting a Cold War atmosphere.

The meeting between ambassadors from the 28-nation alliance and Russia is the first since April and just the second since 2014, when the Ukraine conflict plunged relations into a deep freeze.

"We had an open and frank atmosphere in the meeting but we didn't agree," Stoltenberg said after the talks involving the Russian ambassador and his counterparts from the 28 NATO countries.

"Allies and Russia have profound and persistent disagreements on Ukraine. There was not a meeting of minds today," Stoltenberg said.

The NATO chief added that "in the spirit of transparency, NATO briefed Russia on the important decisions that we took in Warsaw last week to increase our security."

NATO leaders decided at the summit in the Polish capital to send four battalions totalling around 4,000 soldiers to Poland and the Baltic states, which have been nervous ever since Russia's 2014 annexation of Crimea.

They also said they had agreed on a twin-track policy of "deterrence and dialogue" with Russia, insisting they would not back down until Moscow abided by the Minsk peace deal for Ukraine.

- 'Cold War atmosphere' -

But Russia has been strongly critical of the NATO troop decision, accusing the alliance of aggression and warning that it will react to the deployment of forces in its former Soviet backyard.

"The measures on the eastern flank are not justified. They are excessive and counter-productive," Alexander Grushko, Russia's ambassador to NATO, said after the meeting.

He said NATO was "taking us back to a Cold War atmosphere" and said the "model of confrontation that (NATO) is imposing on us does not interest us."

Western countries accuse Russia of backing separatist rebels in eastern Ukraine and the United States and European Union have imposed punishing economic sanctions on Moscow.

The tensions over Ukraine have flared up in recent months with a string of incidents involving Russian and NATO planes over the Baltic Sea, as well as naval incidents in other regions.

But Stoltenberg did however say that Russia had "raised a proposal on air safety in the Baltic Sea" and that the alliance would look at the plans "carefully".

Russia's NATO-member Baltic neighbours have accused Moscow of regularly violating their airspace in recent months and flying with switched-off transponders, devices that allow radars to identify planes and prevent collisions....>>

Turning off those transponders is gonna get some Russia intruders killed.

 

Everyone should be please that NATO stood its ground with Russia and halted at least temporarily Putin's aggressive march to reclaim the lost empire.

 

It's a bunch of the usual garbage. The Ukrainian forces have been shelling and killing civilians continuously in the Donbas, and Poroshenko said right out that he will not hold elections in the Donbass which is a violation of the Minsk agreement. Nato of course did Washington's usual flipping by saying that Russia is not abiding by the Minsk agreement when Russian isn't even involved in Ukraine... The Minsk agreement was between the people in the Donbas and the American supported illegal government in Kiev.

 

Garbage to you. Russia and their so-called "rebel" accomplices are not afraid to murder civilians...just like ISIS.
The Dutch Safety Board said recently that Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17 was brought down by a Russian-made Buk missile. The West and Ukraine point the finger at Putin-backed rebels for shooting down the plane which killed 298 innocent people. This atrocity alone should be enough to bring Putin before the International Courts for crimes against humanity.

 

Usa cowards.

Russia has gift for you. Come get your nukes.

80 thousand russians soldiers on border waiting to give.

 

80 thousand Russians will disappear and never to be heard from again....you can watch it all on your TV....if you have one!

 

Scream like your comrades. Beg for life.

Come usa! Putin waiting for you.

 

Ukraine also have Russian-made Buk missile. The Dutch Safety Board don`t said who shot down the plane. Do you have any proof of your words?

 

I would forward you to the Dutch Safety Council........they can provide all the proof and specifics.

 

Give me a link please.

 

Flight MH17 downed by Russian-built missile, Dutch investigators say ...
www.theguardian.com › World › Malaysia Airlines flight MH17
The Guardian
Oct 13, 2015 - Flight MH17 downed by Russian-built missile, Dutch investigators say. Dutch safety .... The plane was shot down near Grabovo at 1321 GMT.
MH17 crash: Dutch investigators to assess new study implicating ...
www.theguardian.com › World › Malaysia Airlines flight MH17The Guardian
Jan 3, 2016 - ... Russian soldiers implicated in the crash of flight MH17, shot down over ... say the missile was fired from pro-Russian separatist-held territory, ...
Dutch Investigators Say MH17 Was Downed by Russian-Made Missile ...
www.wsj.com/.../dutch-investigators-say-mh17-hit-by-russian-...
The Wall Street Journal
Oct 13, 2015 - Dutch Investigators Say MH17 Was Downed by Russian-Made Missile ... the long-held view that such a missile shot down the passenger plane.
MH17 Ukraine disaster: Dutch Safety Board blames missile - BBC News
www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34511973
BBC
Oct 13, 2015 - Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17 crashed as a result of a Russian-made Buk missile, the Dutch Safety Board says. ... The West and Ukraine say Russian-backed rebels brought down the Boeing 777, but Russia blames Ukrainian forces. The report does not say who fired the missile, but says ...
Flight MH17 shot down by Russian-built Buk missile, Dutch report says ...
www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-mh-idUSKCN0S71C820151013
Reuters
Oct 13, 2015 - Flight MH17 shot down by Russian-built Buk missile, Dutch report says ... to the report by saying there had been "an obvious attempt to draw a ...

 

Scared american how usa handle real war your already huding in fear

Send pics

- - - Updated - - -

Dont be afraid usa. Remember your big words.

 

LOL....Loki, come back tomorrow....I give you some more fun. Now I'm going to a party, drink lots of beer and laugh at how Russia is surrounded by American forces. Yes...No?

 

Lol you boast to rdom stranger. I dont care about shutin usa.

You live here lol

Boast for me usa lol

I belueve you!

- - - Updated - - -

Run hide usa. Like real war usa make excuse and run like dog!

 

Where proof of Russian guilt ?

 

They have nothing just big words.

They run hide behind rules.

But real war they nothing. No mods to save them from satan nukes.

Usa beg russia to bomb them. Soon usa. Soon!

 

El Kabosh my friend.

Say Saudi Arabia uses a USA missile and shoots down an Israeli warplane, does Obama get the blame?

They make excellent points that the Ukraine Govt has long had BUK missiles. Why do we not blame Ukraine? The govt. there is very illegal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system

These old missiles were all over the Soviet Union at one time.

In service 1979–present
Used by See list of present and former operators

Check wikipedia to learn who all used them or uses them.

 

Russians are good at killing civilians...anyone with a backbone is a different story...

 

OP

NATO is even more stupid than the Pentagon and the Ministry of Defence combined!

 

First of all, the Dutch government has determined that the Buk missile originated from rebel held territory...which, if one uses common sense, can lead to the conclusion that the weapon was fired by the rebels themselves. Secondly, I do not see the current government of Ukraine as "illegal" and neither does the international community.

 

These are the 5 key points.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-34518473

Notice that Moscow states that the shrapnel could not come from them since they had years prior made major modifications.

The report narrows down the launch site but it is still a large area.

There is no doubt the air space should have been closed to commercial airplanes.

 

It is still worth noting that most nations agree that the missile was fired by Russian-supported rebels in rebel controlled area. The Dutch, of course, were very diplomatic in their conclusions but could have accused Moscow directly had they wanted to as the evidence was there.

 

I have previously reported of the many military aircraft flown over East Ukraine.

Reported that at the flight levels of commercial jets, from the ground it is very difficult to tell what they are.

Reported that due to the illegal Ukraine coup, the formed government to this day is not legal.

That all said, when you defend your territory, and you have equipment that was kept in Ukraine, it is hard to tell for sure who shot the missile. I believe the airliner was brought down by a SAM. But don't know who fired it.

It is one thing to blame the "rebels" yet quite different to try to blame Putin /Russia. They were very unlikely to have wanted to have such a problem.

BUK is a very old system. To presume that Ukraine could keep them yet not understand how to fire them makes no sense. Some suggest that only Russians understood them. That can't be true.

The shrapnel tells us the system was very very old. Russia has a later version.

 

Here's an article by David L. Phillips of CNBC

INVESTIGATE PUTIN FOR WAR CRIMES

The Kremlin's propaganda machine is working overtime to muddy the waters and deflect responsibility, but here are the facts:

* Putin conceived the plan to destabilize Ukraine in order to bring Ukraine into Russia's zone of influence.

* Russia's intelligence agency GRU closely coordinates with pro-Russian forces in Donetsk and Luhansk.

* The flow of arms from Russia to Ukrainian rebels has increased over the past month. It has continued since the downing of Malaysian Air 17.

* Aerial photography shows the existence of a training ground for rebels in Southwest Russia, as well Russian-run training grounds for rebels near Russia's border with Ukraine.

* Voiceprint analysis, social media, and photographs confirm that a Russian BUK-M1 missile system that downed the Malaysian Air passenger plane.

* Russian technicians provided training on BUK, which is a sophisticated ballistic missile system. Ukraine's intelligence chief maintains that a "Russian officer" pulled the trigger.

* More than a dozen aircraft have been downed by separatists during the conflict.

* The BUK mobile launcher was spotted by local residents in Torez and Snizhne, and photographed. After shooting down the plane, the BUK system was quickly removed and brought back to Russia via the Rostov area.

* International investigators were blocked from accessing the crash-site for five days after the attack, while Russian personnel pilfered personal items and tampered with evidence.

Putin has tried to distance himself from pro-Russian separatists, cynically blaming the Ukrainian Government for attacking the passenger plane. The Russian narrative of events lacks credibility.

In a carefully choreographed propaganda sequence worthy of the Bolshoi, Putin expressed remorse; denied responsibility; and demanded an international investigation.

The International Civil Aviation Administration is already investigating the crash. The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe should examine links between the Kremlin and militias in Eastern Ukraine. In addition, the ICC prosecutor should consider Putin's role.

Downing of the Malaysian Airlines plane clearly falls within the ICC's mandate. The ICC was established to investigate crimes committed by top officials. Its primary focus is "policy responsibility."

Fatou Bensouda is the ICC prosecutor and a well-respected international law expert. She does not need permission to conduct a preliminary investigation. She can investigate any matter on her own authority. If she concludes there is sufficient evidence, she would present findings to judges of the pre-trial chamber and request a full investigation.

To be sure, Russia will do everything in its power to prevent an investigation of Vladimir Putin. The prosecutor will face many legal, technical, and political challenges. Russia has not signed the Rome Statute, so it is not a "state party" to the ICC. The incident occurred in Ukrainian territory. Ukraine's President Petro Poroshenko can, therefore, make a declaration accepting the ICC's jurisdiction and request an investigation........>>

 

Really.
It is necessary to investigate.
We need to find out why Ukraine (Poroshenko) is not closed "military zone" for civilian aircraft. "

We need to find ......What was the Poroshenko target ?... for not closed the "military zone" for civilian aircraft ..... Even after rebels shot down several military aircraft.