You know what is stressful? Fighting an endless "limited" war instead of a short total war. Also, going out of the wire with restrictive rules of engagement that cut off your air and artillery support because a liberal community organizer got elected by a foolish mix of Democrats and independents. "Dashing from boulder to boulder, diving into trenches and ducking behind stone walls as the insurgents maneuvered to outflank us, we waited more than an hour for U.S. helicopters to arrive, despite earlier assurances that air cover would be five minutes away. U.S. commanders, citing new rules to avoid civilian casualties, rejected repeated calls to unleash artillery rounds at attackers dug into the slopes and tree lines — despite being told repeatedly that they weren't near the village. "We are pinned down. We are running low on ammo. We have no air. We've lost today," Marine Maj. Kevin Williams, 37, said through his translator to his Afghan counterpart, responding to the latter's repeated demands for helicopters. Four U.S. Marines were killed Tuesday, the most U.S. service members assigned as trainers to the Afghan National Army to be lost in a single incident since the 2001 U.S.-led invasion. Eight Afghan troops and police and the Marine commander's Afghan interpreter also died in the ambush and the subsequent battle that raged from dawn until 2 p.m. around this remote hamlet in eastern Kunar province, close to the Pakistan border. Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2009/09/08/75036/were-pinned-down-4-us-marines.html#ixzz1eizz2vVs http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2009/09/08/75036/were-pinned-down-4-us-marines.html
Lots and lots of time the US has unfortunately got their intel wrong and killed civilians. Their surviving relatives often take up arms to flight the invaders.
I'm saying, considering the amount of times your military has got it wrong, prudence would be a good idea. But back to the thread, my belief is that humans are pre-wired to not want to kill each other and that when we are subsequently re-wired, the brain rebels with terrible consequences. I also believe that governments who unneccessarily send young men to war are morally bankrupt and do not care about their country or countrymen.
The transition from a military culture to being a civilian is never easy. The Armed Forces are actively engaging in easing the transition, particularly in addressing the issue of suicide. I don't see the suicide rate of service members being significantly higher than those who don't serve...but even one death is worth investing in assisting and supporting our veterans. There's often a stigma associated with seeking help, particluarly for mental or emotional problems...most try to just "tough it out" until their problems become so overwhelming they choose to take their own life rather than seek help. As I say though, the suicide rate for those who have never seen war is not significantly less than those who have. A blanket statement saying that combat causes suicidal tendencies is invalid. Statistics don't support that.
I'm saying killing civilians is wrong and the US military has a trendable history in doing so. If they weren't there (the other side of the world), they wouldn't be getting shot at.
...and these are the same people that are liberals when young but switch to conservative when they get older...alas some people remain young and stupid forever...I think you can relate... Kabuki Joe
Don, this is an example of everyone in the field of battle needing to be very very cautious when calling in air support: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...rage-spreads-at-pakistani-deaths-6268896.html 24 Pakistani soldiers are dead and the Pakistan government has closed your drone base and is closing your supply routes. We won't know how many US lives will be lost due to poor supply routes, but we do know that every action has an opposite reaction. Also, we know 24, yes 2fricking4 Pakistani's are now dead. If this would have been 24 US soldiers, there would be an monumental outcry in your country.
or even killed their own during close fighting... Some of the friendly fire incidents that happened in nam were nightmarish...
Very interesting quote indeed ! How to turn a good happy kid ,a loving & courageous son , into a killer animal ? Lot to comment . I just quote what I red in Sven Hassel's books , ( and others) about the human first contact with war action : I quote the content & sens ( Hassel , as a <<old >> soldier - he is almost 20 - in a penitentiary wehrmacht commando on east front , he watch & describe new recruit à their first " war contact " ) << those smart very courageous youg mens , still half kids , arrived from training section of Hitler Jugend , full of energy to wipe down the ugly Rssian under human ennemy . It took them just 15 minutes - say S Hassel - under the ennemy preparation of artillery barrage , before the assault ; After the first show of a few young friends suddenly disembowled or the corps of a nearby friend , suddenly with a geiser of blood instead of a head ,15 mn to understand that all movies that they were fed with , about fresh glory on the honour battelfield , was in fact only utmost horror, dirt, terror , blood , precious guts mixed in the mud ,and the terrible animal fear making them digging earth . >> S Hassel , E M Remarq , Céline , are enough to make us understand the deep real combat effect is the end of any human qualities , the way back - within few seconds - from thousands years of inteligence upward evolution back to the worst animal background of mankind. Modern or old warfare doesn't make any difference. Between the A14 " Warthog" ground attack plane , or Josef Kessel telling the huge riders shock in XIX century on Ukrainians meadows , between 1000 Turkish and Kosak riders shocked each others at full horses speed with swords forwards ...nothing evolved . War is the failure of mankind ; Military industry hypertrophia is a clear & definitly failure for human specie . At any period of any wars , those survivors old soldiers had noticed that , the ones that we always found in the deadly places of combat were poor peoples in vicilian sociaty . The poorest , managed as combat animals by their officers , always representing the rich guys in civilian society . The poorest guys kill each others , as none of them has any wealth interest in these conflicts , for the only hidden interest of peoples that never approach the deadly places . What about the interest of poor unemployed guys , fighting In Afghanistan for few bucks , to allow heroin industry to grow ?
DISARRO: I think it's important to remember too that when we talk about, you know, suicide -- it's a complicated problem that we just are beginning to understand. It's in the last ten years since people have actually started to really look at the numbers. And our numbers actually have kind of matched civilian numbers. And what we did talk about is that between 2006, 2009, we did have some -- our numbers were higher than average, but our numbers have actually started to decline as of 2009. That was our highest year, and now they're starting to go down a little bit. We can say -- our numbers have reduced nearly 30% from 2009 to 2010. And so far our numbers for this year are actually below last year. That's a good thing. There's also five things that we see on a regular bases. Your legal and disciplinary problems, behavioral health diagnosis, financial problems, substance abuse, those tend to be five of the top stressors and things that we see that are contributing factors to someone's suicidal ideation or disposition at that time. It's also important to remember that just because feedbacks are having these 5 things it doesn't mean people go on to attempt suicide. http://www.kpbs.org/news/2011/sep/13/camp-pendleton-working-combat-marine-suicides/
Analyse of the fact could point out how US pilots there , make very few efforts to spare human lives. Job is easy , confortable , well paid ... They arn't at all conscious of the effects of doing their job without efforts . Once , they killed an entire village wedding , one hundred village people died . A mistake , said the pilot ... No punishment fot so few ! All victims were <<natives >>, so.. Leutenant Calley trial ( viet Nam : Mi Ly slaughter ) is no more to be faired ...
Army still havin' a problem with suicides... Army sees highest suicide rate in July August 16th, 2012 - Soldiers killed themselves at a higher monthly rate in July than any other since detailed statistics have been kept on the issue, the U.S. Army said Thursday.
They wouldn't be there except for atrocities committed on the USA during the 90's, culiminating in the ultimate atrocity of 9/11. We have a moral duty to ourselves and our posterity to ensure Afghanistan is NEVER able to be used as a training camp for Jihad. Civilians sometimes get caught up in the crossfire, but to claim that America has no right to be in Afghanistan is to completely delegitmize 9/11, an atrocity planned and funded from caves in Afghanistan. If a lawless country is being used by terrorists to plot attacks agianst the West. It is our moral duty and right to go in and force that country to impose law and order to ensure that society is no longer a threat to the West.
I don't think there is anything diddle rent about this war than previous wars. None at all. Which implies there may be something different about the current generation of soldiers from their parents and grandparents.
You only describe the terminal symptoms of the disease , but the deep reasons come from human genuine data. Young US privates are not fanatical jews stuffed with racial hatred as in IAF .They are simple citizen , driven to army as a solution to earn some money . But most of them are normal guys, and their suffering that lead them to death are " normal " suffering facing an cancer-like situation. Killing civilians for nothing can't be turned into a holly war for this or that, as hollywood criminal or brainless Langley officers think. Are you able to imagine your own reactions if you had been eye & nose witness of the mass phosphorus charring of civilians in Halabja ?
So it is your insane idea that our troops, who have internet connections, just kill themselves rather than telling the rest of the world what is happening?? IS that what you think?? What a load of ignorance. Have you ever been deployed to a place like Afghanistan? Our general population is suicidal if their iPad gets wet. many of these kids go into the military for the wrong reasons and many of them are mentally ill before they get to the war zone. What does that have to do with suicide?
Marines reunite to remember another brother lost to suicide, losing one more part of themselves... Commentary: Losing Sense of Self One Suicide at a Time Sep 01, 2016 | This article by Gerardo Mena originally appeared on TheWarHorse.org, a nonprofit investigative news organization focused on covering the Departments of Defense and Veterans Affairs.
Now,we have reach the year 2016 . What could you say concerning the evolution of this massive GI suicides since 2011 ? The actual reasons for Afghan everlasting war for nothing . The way the medias and the power have reacted to the suicide of their joung boys .. The fate of the People of the USA , when few foreign lobbies command by their own to the wars the USA have to wage , or when the benefits of these wars are all for the jewish long term goals , only . 5 years , and more & more suicides of GI . The only reaction has be a censorship on the topic .
