I don't recollect the National Antehm being so sacred to our country

Both have spines, both have legs, the issue conservatives are having is whether someone stands up or not. They do coincide with one another.

 

I had to go to Catholic Grade School and High School ... I'm still pissed at Nuns. Imagine have to go to School where Freedom of Expression is met with a 12 inch Ruler.

But I got even ... I'm a University of Illinois, Illinois Institute of Technology and Keller Graduate School veteran. ... and the best part is, Women go to those Schools.

 

Now I know why they don't do this for Golf ...

 

Since you dont believe standing for the anthem means anything, the players are just wasting our time....

 

Donald Trump don't give a **** about The National Anthem ... he just likes to play with his Fools.

 

To go with your username, you do know that the TV remote has a mute or power button right?

 

lol, my dad told me the horror story's about going to a Chicago Catholic school, thank God he didn't make me go ..

 

Again they can't think for themselves. Always miming others...LOL

 

So,do you feel the same when the fans are drunk from tailgating before the game begins & shows disrespect by not remembering the lyrics to the National Anthem?
Are they forgiven because their drunk? Where is their Patriotism?
Now, don't get me wrong, I am a proud American,I will stand & respect the tradition--that is my choice--And honestly,I have never paid attention if someone in the stands or the players didn't stand up or kneel or sing---it is none of my business--I did not go to the game to be judgmental,I went to the game to root for my team & have fun---And I will continue to do so-----GO BRONCOS----GO STEPHEN CURRY-----GO CARDINALS---

 

First of all, the anthem is a recognized time of recognition by the for the gifts of the nation- even if you don't have all you want, and even if it's not perfect. I'm old- and there has never been a time when an audience didn't stand for the anthem, or when one who didn't would be seen as insulting the nation. It's not a mortal sin. It's an insult and way of saying you do not appreciate the gift of freedom.

Kneeling may be an act meaning many things. People used to kneel to kings, others forced to kneel so their heads could be cut off. What matters here is what the intent of the acct was- what the act means elsewhere is irrelevant. They meant disrespect; no different than giving us all the finger.

There is a time and place to protest for any purpose- but unless you are a fool, you don't insult everybody in the country when you do it. That would be to say that you think yourself and your complaint so important that it is more important than anything or anyone else. That's arrogance, indifference and selfishness, not protest. It is also a major character reveal, and it's an ugly one.

You notice they didn't quit their jobs in protest. Too bad, because that would have been much more meaningful. But of course, that would have a price- and they wanted to be able to act abusively without paying one. These guys are not going to get respect from respectable people for being disrespectful to the nation.

 

Why do you think they play the National Anthem before sporting events?

Doesn't the fact that they play it before virtually EVERY sporting event communicate its importance?

Doesn't the fact that they go through the trouble of asking everyone to put their hand on their heart and for gentleman to remove their hats indicate that it is considered sacred?

 

Full lyrics:

O say can you see, by the dawn's early light,
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming,
Whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming?
And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there;
O say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

On the shore dimly seen through the mists of the deep,
Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
In full glory reflected now shines in the stream:
'Tis the star-spangled banner, O long may it wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country, should leave us no more?
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave,
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

O thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved homes and the war's desolation.
Blest with vict'ry and peace, may the Heav'n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: 'In God is our trust.'
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave![27]

 

The word slave is not synonymous with black person. And some of them “may” have been but they would have been a tiny minority. But what difference does that make at all?

 

Basically every time you open your petty mouth. You’ve made your hatred blatantly clear

 

That reveals a lot about you and your background. So the flag means nothing to you, it means nothing to the people who raised you and who you associate with. The nations history means nothing to you. And of course you have done nothing for the nation either. Not sacrificed your time or comfort, certainly not risked life and limb.

Where I live, you stand for the national anthem and when the US flag passes by, because they symbolize honor, sacrifice, freedom, a higher standard.

When people hear "Reveille", "Retreat" or "To the Colors", everything stops, even cars, you face the flag or the direction you think the flag is located, and salute or put your hand on your heart. I've seen people in buildings stand at their window.

When people hear the national anthem, again everything stops. I've seen people stand up even when its played on the tv.

You can take a knee in the NFL, but you try taking a knee where I live and there will be absolutely no doubt you ****ed up big time.

Utterly stupid argument.

 

We continue to nibble at the core issue, which concerns how you answer a very simple question: is the United States of America a nation whose values should be defended, celebrated, and promoted?

Those who answer yes treat the flag and anthem with a certain level of respect, in recognition of the fact that these are the outward symbols that point to American values which they appreciate. Those who answer no have zero regard for those who have fought and bled and died in defense of those values, and prefer instead to do things which disrespect the flag and anthem, in recognition of the fact that these are the symbols that point to American values which they detest.

So let's be clear. It is not the treatment of our national symbols that is most problematic. It is the view of our national values that tell the real story. If you buy into the narrative that America is an evil country that is unworthy of the place she has held (and continues to hold) in the world, your disdain will come through loud and clear in a number of different ways, not the least of which is taking a knee during the national anthem. If you believe that America is a shining city atop a hill, you'll be offended by those who fail to recognize her goodness. Therein lies the divide that we see being played out within both the NFL and the country as a whole.

 

Like most people, the nation is a work in progress. Not perfect, but the best we can do at the moment given our various personal limitations, misconceptions and flaws.
As a nation, we have been and are world leaders in many ways, and our success should indeed be celebrated and appreciated.

A wise man once gave me some advice on understanding the process of growing up. He said that "Your father gave you the best he had to give, and though some of it may have been poor- bear in mind that he had to build on what his father gave to him. It is your job to take what you have been given, weed out all the bad you can, build in all the good you can, and then pass that to your children- where the job must begin again. We are all works in progress, and so long as we move forward, that is not to be ashamed of."

 

Do you actually believe that the US is perfect, finished, and works exactly the way it should in every way? Do you actually think the values of the US today are flawless?

 

Thankfully Trump is a doer, not an appeaser like Obama.

 

No, the lamestreammedia would have done it for Obama.

 

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness"

Its been over a century since the government has become destructive to those ends. Tradition means squat when it represents things like this.

Leave it to a statist to hope slavery upon those in which they disagree. I am a responsible human being- I raised my daughters to be moral, educated people. They earn their money. I was raised Appalachian poor but overcame that and raised myself up upon my own volition. I own my house, been married 28 years to the most wonderful woman that has ever walked this earth. I did this on my own.

Funny, when Obama said "You didn't build that." in 2012 conservatives went ape ****, but now that a person won't stand for the anthem for say the POA they go ape **** and claim everything I have is "'cause 'Merica" . **** that and **** the hypocrisy.

America has not stood for those kind of values for quite some time, and it never will again. Time to take the queue from th Constitution, although I doubt if anyone will because to most it holds the same value as toilet paper- use it when convenient, and flush it when you've wiped your ass with it.

 

I guess you don't go to too many sporting events, then. The beginning of every organized sporting event (middle school, high school, college and professional) I've been to has been a playing or performing of the National Anthem, with the great majority of people with their hands over their hearts and hats off (well, the males anyway). Nobody minds if someone who can't stand up (wheelchair or even elderly) for the Pledge, merely puts their hands over their hearts. Not sure why you made up such a bizarre example.

 

At sporting events, I've never heard more than the first verse.

 

Kneeling (or taking a knee) has never in the history of civilization been considered to be a sign of disrespect. Tim Teabow, during his brief NFL career, was known for taking a knee during the game after a scoring play and no one condemned him for being disrespectful of anything. Sorry, but regardless of the situation kneeling is never a symbol of disrespect.

It can also be noted that there was extensive discussion on this issue when Colin Kaepernick began his demonstrating in 2016 and disrespect for the flag or the nation was never the case. It was out of respect for what our flag stands for that was the foundation of Kaepernick's demonstration during the National Anthem. The discussions in the sports circles was about whether political demonstration by a professional football play on game day was acceptable. It was never about being disrespectful of anything must less the American flag.

We don't need to know what's in Trump's soul because we have his statements and actions to go by. We can start with the Trump's segregated apartments in the early 1970's and follow that through to the Central Park Five and all the way into 2015-2017 where he's called Mexicans "rapists", endorsed religious intolerance by advocating the banning of Muslims, and even his selection for Attorney General because Jeff Sessions has always reflected a white supremacists leaning with his opposition to civil rights. Jeff Sessions, since becoming the AG, has stopped the DOJ's investigations into racial profiling and prejudice being committed by law enforcement and has also stopped supporting voting rights for minorities. Sessions also expressed support for the Immigration Act of 1924 that was the final round of racist immigration restrictions to prevent non-whites and non-Protestants from immigrating to the United States. That's just what Trump's doing with his executive orders on travel restrictions. Trump started with Muslims and now's expanding that to include Hispanics and Asians (by country of course).

Donald Trump is about as racist as a person can be short of putting on a white robe and hood. Just ask the experts because Donald Trump won the support of the KKK, David Duke the former grand wizard of the KKK, as well as Richard Spencer and his "Alt-Right" Neo-Nazi White Supremacists and he still has that support.

Amazing, this is the standard White Nationalist (White Supremacists) line of BS.

The American colonies were under the authority of the Crown of England based upon the self-declared "Right of Conquest" that was imposed by force. Yes, the American colonies rejected the "force of arms by a depot" as being the rightful government of the people. f

The Constitutional government of the United States was established by the "self-determination of the people" where each of the states entered into a voluntary partnership with the other States. The "Confederates" unlawfully mounted an armed insurrection against a government that they'd voluntarily subjected themselves to ignoring the fact that the means for them to address any grievance as well as the means to lawfully withdraw from the United States were available to them. They committed treason under the supreme law of the land that they had voluntarily subjected themselves to.

The ideology of the United States requires liberty and justice for all. Racial profiling violates the US Constitution that represents the American political ideology, The protest isn't against all police. The protest is against the racial prejudice, racial profiling, and police brutality resulting from these racist actions that violate the US Constitution.

Yes, Trump is being protested for siding against those that are standing for what America stands for. Yes, the protest can also be against Trump because he just granted a pardon to Joe Arpaio that was found guilty of racism in directing his sheriff's department to use racial profiling, in violation of the Constitution, in their police activities. Even after the federal court ordered Arpaio to stop violating the US Constitution he willfully continued to violate the Constitution in his role as sheriff. Not only did Arpaio disrespect the Rule of Law by the federal courts, Joe Arpaio disrespected the US Constitution and the American flag by his actions. By siding with Joe Arpaio Donald Trump has also disrespected the Rule of Law, the US Constitution, and the American flag.

Excluding the fact that the Ferguson prosecutor corrupted the grand jury process so we'll never know the truth about what happened in Ferguson it was not the basis for the protests. The extent of racial prejudice in law enforcement and our criminal justice system is not anecdotal. It's been established by study after study during the last 50 years. It's also documented in our courts where police departments like Seattle and, our favorite here in Arizona, the Maricopa Sheriff's Department under Joe Arpaio were proved to be engaged in racial profiling based upon prejudice and order to stop.

There are many very good officers and one of the issues the NFL protester bring up is why don't they do something when they see other officers doing something wrong? While a very old example if we look back at the beating of Rodney King by four LAPD officers something that seems to have been overlooked is that those four officers weren't the only ones there. There were eighteen law enforcement officers at the scene and they allowed the four LAPD officers to beat Rodney King to a bloody pulp.

Statistics are valid for a group but are not valid for an individual within the group. For example a 2012 study found that 79% of "Republicans" expressed explicit anti-black racial prejudice. That's eight out of ten Republicans. Should we assume that when we're talking to a Republican that they're a racist based upon that statistic?

It's somewhat ironic because the DOJ along with other plaintiff's clearly established that revisions to the Texas voting laws disenfranchised minority voters in violation of the Voting Rights Act. At the federal court level the plaintiffs also established that the disenfranchisement was intentional on the part of the Republicans controlling the state legislature. The Appeals Court confirmed that the law resulted in the disenfranchisement of minorities, in violation of the law, but said the evidence wasn't conclusive enough about whether it was intentional and sent that issue back to the federal court.

After winning the case that the Texas voting laws were discriminatory based upon race and almost providing enough evidence that this was intentional by the Republican legislature the DOJ suddenly made a reverse to claim that it wasn't intentional.... just because Jeff Sessions became the AG. Reversing the position by the DOJ and claiming laws that were clearly discriminatory, after Republicans responsible for these type of laws in the past even admitted the disenfranchisement of minority is intentional, is so wrong that it can't even be described by me.

Are there other cases? Absolutely. Republican gerrymandering that the Republican strategists admit intentionally denies representation to minorities is going before the US Supreme Court soon. We'll see what side Sessions is on in that case.

I'm not sure how Trump's appointments will turn out because the vast majority don't even have nominations yet but before taking office Trump' cabinet would be the "Whitest cabinet" in recent history. One thing we do know is that for many of his appointments he's chose people that are completely inappropriate for the position.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trumps-c...-the-whitest-in-recent-history-212344891.html

Inequality and oppression can only originate from those that control the social, economic, and political institutions. Those institutions have always been controlled by White Protestant Men in the United States and it's not surprising that when we address inequality and oppression in the United States the only demographic that's never suffered inequality and oppression are White Protestant Men. Isn't that simply amazing?

Now please take the White Supremacy propaganda down the street to the local hate shop.

 

No I do not. Why would you think that I do? Read again what I said; I was careful to say exactly what I think. I do believe that the U.S. provides the best opportunities for someone willing to work hard. I do believe that the Constitution is one of the greatest governmental documents ever conceived by man. I do believe that we Americans are capable of changing for the better. And yes, I do believe that this country is a gift that should be cherished, celebrated, promoted, and defended.

You disagree?

Thank you. I love that quote. I did not mean to leave folks with the impression that I believe the country to be done improving. However, the framework in which we operate is incredibly well thought out, and provides us the vehicle by which we are able to improve. Those who take a knee during the national anthem either don't recognize this, or choose to belittle it. My position: I don't agree with everything the government does, but I appreciate its ability to right itself when it begins to go off course.