‘Straight up stupid,' 'incompetent' and 'misguided’: Economist Adam Posen rips Trump's tariffs

which can only mean it's brilliant

 

You won't get agreement from qualified economists.

Tariffs cracked the Alliance and led to the Great Depression. Everybody loses.

 

yawn.

 

China doesn't export much of either to the US. If you Trumpers knew anything about the "issue" you think you are trying to solve, you would realize we import most of our Steel from Canada. China isn't even in the top 10 for Steel imports.

As for Chinese steel, it's no worse than American steel. We buy it in my industry and it meets all the same specifications. We often have as many issues with American steel as Chinese.

And this won't help us have a vibrant anything. Here's why, because I know you didn't pay attention in economics class in high school. The reason we don't make steel here anymore is because our labor wants more money than you or I are willing to pay in overhead for finished goods made from steel. So the people who make those goods found a way to meet our price point expectations (that being the market), and that solution was to use cheaper labor to make the same good.

NOW, Trumpers, many of whom thrive on cheap goods, want to make those cheap good in America. Well you can't have it both ways. Because everyone involved in selling those goods gets their cut. And if you raise the price of making the good, you have to raise the price associated with distributing it and retailing it. And that means huge markups for you at the Walmart. That means that for the few new jobs this may create in America, EVERYONE will be paying higher prices for goods. Higher prices for goods people consider essential or have a high demand for, such as cars, equals a worse life for everyone. That's the basic premise of the free market.

Please read the Wealth of Nations. Adam Smith is turning in his grave at your post.

 

The primary U.S. trading partners are China ($636 billion total trade), Canada ($582 billion), Mexico ($557 billion). The trade deficit with China is $375 billion. It's responsible for 66 percent of the total U.S. deficit in goods. The other U.S. trading partners don't create much of a deficit.

Chinese steel is way worse than American steel. Its filled with impurities and only good for fence posts and such, not for bending and manufacturing.

 

I accept YOUR surrender since I know you haven't got a clue what I've been writing in this thread.

Steve

 

Ricardo is more appropriate BASIC reading in Intl trade. But this is about Trump negotiating with China about its OWN UNFAIR TRADE PRACTICES. Stirring the pot only makes it more difficult for Trump to negotiate.

Say bye-bye to more dems losing seats SINCE 2010.

Steve

 

I do not. They do, nonetheless have about the same effect on establishing a trade war. Would you disagree that we currently have a trade war with N Korea? Or Iran? Or Russia? Tariffs may be less combative, but they are none the less very much the same kind of tool.

 

Is that what you think?

Lol!

 

Read an economics book and it'll dawn on you.

Steve

 

While I understand your point, don't you think that causing economic havoc with our enemies is better than economic havoc with our allies? I'm pretty sure that with your examples the rest of the world joined us in our efforts. They won't with the tariffs.

 

Recommend one

 

ANYTHING by David Ricardo for Int'l trade. You or Avro will likely have to begin with Econ 101 to understand Ricardo though. But that's not the point. Trump is negotiating with China to end its OWN UNFAIR TRADE PRACTICES.

Steve

 

Trump decided it was time for something new.

He recently lost his staff secretary. Seems his staff secretary had this nasty habit of beating up wives.

He recently lost his right hand lady who had an affair with the wife beater, exacerbated a security clearance issue that cost Trump a senior advisor, and told Congressional investigators she lied to protect the President.

He renewed his feud with his A.G. called him Mr. Magoo. In return, Sessions dared the President to fire him.

Yesterday, he told members of Congress that they were collectively frightened of the NRA, and upset his Republican colleagues when he sounded like a Democrat on gun control issues.

His son-in-law is in big trouble because: A) He lost his top secret clearance, making it impossible to perform his duties despite what Sarah Sanders says. And B) After meeting with the leaders of Apollo, a private equity firm, and Citigroup, Kushner Companies received loans totally $500 million, giving nepotism a bad name. Lawyers for Kushner say there is no connection. Stay with me. The humor is only going to get better.

All that was not enough for Trump. He decided that the one area he had not yet despoiled was the booming American economy. So, he targeted it. He said the U.S. will set tariffs of 25 percent for steel and 10 percent for aluminum starting sometime next week. The Dow lost 420.22 points to 24,608.98. The 30-stock index fell as much as 586 points. Shares of Ford Motor dropped 3 percent and General Motors fell nearly 4 percent followed by Boeing, Cummins, Johnson Controls, United Technologies, and other users of steel and aluminum.

Loyal to fault, Republicans did not blame Trump for his horrible decision. They blamed his advisors and Democrats. Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, said that whoever advised Mr. Trump on the decision "ought to be reprimanded" because the new tariffs are "not going to help America."

"I love the president. I think he's done a terrific job up to now. This could turn everything the other way," Hatch said. Hey, now that is funny.

Sen. Ben Sasse, R-Nebraska, blasted the move, calling it "disastrous." "This is leftist economic policy. And we've tried it a bunch of times over the last two centuries," Sasse said. "And every time, American families have suffered. It is bad policy." The humor never ends.

Sen. John Kennedy, R-Louisiana, didn't know what to think. "I just don't know yet. If it looks like I'm hedging, that's because I am." This is really good stuff here.

Paul Ryan and others said that "the President should consider the unintended consequences of this idea and look at other approaches before moving forward." But the most important statement was the one made by Sen. Rob Portman, R-Ohio. Leave it to a Midwesterner to bring some some sense to the chaos created by Trump.

"I think there's a way to do this with regard to specific products and specific countries," he said. "And I'm hopeful that will be the end result. I know the president made some comments today. But they're waiting until next week to look at all the different exceptions they might make for national security purposes, so let's wait and see what they come up with."

So, in other words, no one, including Trump, knows what Trump is talking about.

That is exactly my point. Trump has done this many times before. He creates a furor of controversy then moves on to another issue. My prediction: Trump tested the waters, found they were boiling hot especially when it comes to fellow Republicans and his cherished Wall Street, and he will back off, maybe not even mentioning the subject again.

Trump never admits to being wrong.

 

Most companies will still use chinese steel because it's cheaper. That comes with the territory of supporting Chinese sweatshops for cheaper goods.

 

The problem...is that you have claimed all sorts of nonsense...but written very little that made any sense.

Weren't you going to expound on trade theory for us?

 

If this stuff weren't so serious...it'd be hilarious

****ing amazing

 

I wrote book in 2001 and have no intentions of teaching international trade or economics to people that are totally brainwashed by the lying liberal media. What I have written in this thread is showing that dems are losing elections because of their hate for Trump, but it will backfire on you again.

Steve

 

Its also crappy, and it takes a month on a ship to get here. If it doesnt meet quality standards, it takes another month to get replacement steel.

By that time your company is out of business

 

Or 8 year olds complaining about lack of opportunity, while praising the words of people who have been supporting trading it away.

 

Wrong. The economy is doing great despite Trump, not because of him.

Wall Street and corporation execs love the less regulatory Republicans and their desire to lower taxes on corporations. Sound familiar? Wall Street surged because the Republicans won Congress and a subservient President who will sign corporate tax break bills two and half months before Trump took office.

Congress wrote the tax reform law benefiting corporations with very little, if any, input from Trump. Other than the tax reform bill, Trump has not signed one piece of legislation designed to stimulate the economy.

Obama inherited from a Republican administration the second worst economic disaster in our history, the Great Recession. Several bills were passed during the Obama administration designed to stimulate the economy. Some worked, others didn't, but Obama tried. Trump has not even tried, pointing to the lack of legislation. There were 76 straight months of job growth under Obama. The eight years of the Obama administration has far more to do with our booming economy than anything Trump has done in 13 1/2 months.

 

For an author so steeped in economic theory...you ought to be able to "dumb it down" for us commoners...if you actually knew what you were talking about.

Pffftttt

 

There is some possibility that the portion of the vehicle made from steel and aluminum will go up, but even the entire portion of the vehicle made from it is less than half the cost of the vehicle.

Why throw out such a inflated number?

 

Chinese steel is no worse than the steel that US companies used in the WTC. You know, the steel that melted at far below the normal melting point for steel, and caused the towers to collaspe way before they normally would have if proper steel was used in the framing

 

Actually the quality of Chinese steel has improved tremendously to where it is on par with US steel.

Just pointing out the reality