Democrats border security plan

Not totally true. However, Honduras does top the murder charts. They do have a great many gangs, and gangs control every neighborhood in the larger cities. They do have gang wars, and conditions are such that if boys as old as 10 don't start aligning themselves, they they are at even greater risk. Most gang members are under 16. One gang conflict resulted in the killing of six teens, whose bodies were dismembered and thrown in a creek. That is information provided by National Geographic; highly reliable.

Note that Honduras is not experiencing an invasion of gangs from other countries- the gangsters, the corrupt police, and the violence are home-grown. The people themselves are making that nation what it is. The bulk of the caravans are from Honduras. Those who want to come in our southern border have been living and/or raised in that environment, where growing old is more a privilege or luck than a right. Ask yourself if you want to move into their neighborhood, because if they move into yours, it won't be much different. If we don't have a sound way to carefully vet who let in and who we reject, it will be.

I've been to Honduras several times- and they now murder Americans where they used to welcome us as tourists or people working on projects there.

 

Your post is just pathetic tribalism. Both parties do what you are complaining about.

Many of us non-party people oppose the wall because it is a waste of money. They can easily be defeated. Tunneled under. Sailed around.
And completely obsolete as a deterrent to drugs with the advent of cheap drones. I would have been just as opposed if any other politician had proposed it. But you just going on living in a world where everything revolves around Trump - it's what he lives for.

 

Don't assume things - it makes you look foolish.

 

So I take it you want to keep some walls because they are worthless and a waste of money and the Mexicans just tunnel under them?

 

Fence, technology, personnel, this and next generation of drones: all much preferable to a wall.

 

What is the difference between a wall and a fence?

 

You seem to be caught in a binary thought loop. It's a disease which seems to be rampant around here.

 

The people who oppose the plan for a wall- have no plan, and that is the worst possible choice. And the government can waste money at an alarming rate and does that all the time, getting a lot less in return than what we would save by constructing a wall. We are spending $45 billion dollars a year in Afghanistan, the current total is 2.4 Trillion dollars. What have we got for that? Dead and maimed soldiers.

Anything can be defeated, from bank vaults to laser alarms. However- banks DO rely on vaults, and museums DO rely on laser detection systems. Why do they bother? because while not absolutely fool-proof, the provide a high level of security instead of none. Do you keep your money on the front porch in a glass jar? That is roughly similar in intelligence to having a border that is not protected. Trump isn't making this happen, it's been long overdue and long discussed- Trump is just the first politician that actually intends to keep his promise to do it. If you want to blame someone, blame the democrats of the last 15 years or so when they kept saying we needed it done and did nothing.

IF walls were a waste of money, ask yourself why all over the nation you see walled communities, private fences and various enclosures- millions of them, designed to control uninvited entry. They do indeed work- and they work on the border. The wall on the border must be larger is scale because the threat is larger in scale. El Paso is across the border from Cuidad Jaurez, a high-crime Mexican city and was dealing with intense illegal entry. They put up a fence- about 18 ft tall of heavy wire grid and steel columns, running almost 20 miles. What happened? Illegal entry dropped 90%. That's how well it works- and rather than be overwhelmed as they are now, the border patrol can handle that kind of load with ease. The objective is not to prevent illegal immigration, but to control immigration.

Now there are many ways to do this, and the least threatening way is to have a deterrent to entering at places other than the gates that are made to suit the purpose. This is no difference than the fence you put around your home- you want people to come to the front door and knock; not come into your back yard at will, climb in a rear window and take up residence, or go clean our your garden.. Many who cross the border illegally are already ineligible due to criminal histories and cannot cross legally- which means we have additional reasons why illegal entry must be stopped; it has a high rate of unacceptables. Crossing illegally is a crime on it's own, also showing that such a person is unwilling to respect the laws of the nation in the first place.

There are places in the world that shoot people crossing illegally, and that would be the cheapest solution. However, we don't subscribe to that. We have been the most generous and kindest country in the world towards immigrants- but those who fail to respect us have no business sneaking in the back door, and we have no reason to excuse them for doing it, nor excusing ourselves for permitting it. Whatever it takes to control the problem- we should do. How drastic that must be depends on the determination of those who would violate the border. The wall is not everything- but it is the cheapest, most effective thing we can do to channel immigrants toward the port of entry gates and legitimate entry. We have already allowed between 12 and 20 million aliens to sneak in; the cost of that problem is far beyond the cost of a wall.

 

The left knows exactly what they are doing, playing politics. They cannot afford for Trump to get a win, the security of our country be damned.

 

Who is hurt most by the government shutdown?

I don't see where it hurts President Trump who is playing to his base and to those Americans who are getting sick of open borders and illegal aliens.

The Republican Congress tried to get funding legislation passed but failed against the Democrat delay and deny tactics.

A few years ago the Democrats wanted the wall plus security tech and were willing to spend about 50 billion for the package - now they're fighting against spending anything but a token pittance on border security. Every time an illegal alien kills an American, the Democrats will get the blame.

I don't see the shutdown going past mid-January before the Nancy Pelosi folds.

 

Nope, not at all, Vet1966. McConnell had a deal on one day with the Dems and the Pres, and the next day Trump changed his mind.

So, "no, President Trump."

 

If the democrats thought the wall would be a monument to stupidity they would gladly let the republicans build it so they could laugh at it for years to come.

Democrats are scared because they know Wall's work.

 

Will a wall stop someone with a grappling hook and rope? How about a ladder?

Why do Democrats want to allow more illegal immigrants? Can there be any other reason than they want their votes? Once enough are here and the time is right couldn't they grant them amnesty?
If above is true, they can't be seen as trying to stop them.

What's so wrong with coming here the legal way?

 

First of all, as the Tweeter-in-Chief admitted, it was his decision to shut down the government and he said he would take responsibility for it.



Second................
U.S. Senate Report: Wall Costs Could Soar Toward $70 Billion

https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/border-wall-report

Third, the $5B Baby Donald is demanding is being done as a political stunt to appease his base and give him yet another way to divide the country. If he really believed in its efficacy he should take the case to the American people with his evidence a wall would be worth the investment. But he isn't interested or capable of convincing anyone to change their minds or offer a compromise solution to the impasse. He wants conflict.

 

He has said he wanted a wall from the start. The democrats aren't so much opposed to the wall as they are opposed to Trump. If he had said a wall was stupid, the democrats would be clamoring for a wall.

 

The question is why do democrats put illegals first over american citizens? Lets be clear here if democrats don't get the illegals votes, they can't win elections that's what it's about.

 

Illegal aliens can't vote and you have no credible evidence that they do.

 

Trump said he'd shut down the government if he didn't get his border security funding. I have absolutely no problem with that and give him credit for taking a stand on this extremely important issue

 

Leaving that debatable issue aside for the moment noncitizens and illegal aliens are counted when apportioning congressional districts and when allocating state electors under the Electoral College. This means noncitizens play a role in determining how many congressional representatives a state has and exert an indirect influence on presidential elections.

 

By the way I wonder how you all feel about that cop being murdered by an illegal? My guess is you all don't care, because you hate cops. I hope they catch that SOB and chop his head off.

 

It is not a far fetch to say that Trump could still get Mexico to pay for the wall by putting an excise tax on all trade and use of the border. A little good communication by those who support the idea of border security could go a long way to start shifting attitudes back to supporting the idea of a wall.

1. The idea of a wall is not to stop immigration but to help control the inflow of illegal immigration. The United states does not have unlimited resources to supply welfare, health care, jobs, schooling, etc. The vast majority of those seeking asylum have no education of any type. The only skills they have are menial labor. We are not offering these people a better life but we are using them to fulfill jobs that are closer to slavery than freedom.

2. Immigration into the United States has always been based on the melting pot idea of controlled visas to keep a balance of all races who are granted citizenship. It has never been the intention to let any one nationality dominate the landscape.

3. The idea of a wall will not stop all illegal drugs entering our country but it would be a great deterrent. We need to let the people know that we are not talking about a wall like the Great Wall of China. Many miles of the border will employ other forms of technical security.

4. Building a wall is a deterrent to those who wish to enter our country and are a threat to the well being of our citizens. Do we really want to let gang members freedom to establish territorial violence? Do we want to allow those people free access to our neighborhoods who wish to deal in sexual slavery, drug running, etc.? How many more innocent American lives have to be lost to drunk drivers, gang violence, drug overdoses, police and law enforcement murders? How many more innocent American daughters need to be raped by illegals before we say enough? Have we had enough of the property theft by illegals who have no jobs or source of income?

It is quite un-American to oppose border security, of our country, for the simple reason "I don't like Trump". People that put their hatred of a person over the welfare and good of the country are very narrow-minded and empty headed.

 

Dems want border security. Only the malignant, the uninformed, and the mentally unbalanced say Dems support open borders.

It is not mentally or emotionally healthy to suggest Mexico will build the wall.

 

That will work!

It will trigger layoffs in manufacturing facilities all over the United States, and the price of fresh produce will skyrocket while fresh vegetables rot on the vines in the Baja peninsula.

But right wingers don't seem to be able to think ahead and consider the consequences. Trump never does. He's no smart enough.

 

but democrats don't do any of that.

 

That's just dumb.

Look guys, a Democrat that believes Democrats don't aid and abet illegal immigrants with sanctuary cities and don't offer them benefits like gaven Newsome promises them.

And Beto Francis doesn't want to take down the border fences we already have.

Democrats don't have a clue what their party stands for.