The Bible

Excuse me for jumping in very late but... Seventh century?

 

I read hieroglyphics and drink tequila at the same time..

I take my clothes off.. just a fair warning

 

Religious books have no ending

It would be bad for business

 

The Bible was first published in which language in the American colonies?

 

Religious books have no ending

It would be bad for business

 

swt bb

 

A later date than what?

 

Sorry. 7th ccentury BCE While the Hebrews were in Babylon.

https://carm.org/bible-verses-show-jesus-divine Isn't that rather confirming Scripture by using scripture.

But still. There is no reference to Jesus on the OT. Period. Only scriptures that Christianity has used for their purposes. You need to understand Jewish history and Judaism to understand this. Matthew's nativity story drags prophecies from the OT that have nothing to do with Jesus of you study the OT. Luke compounds the problem with his nativity story. At one stage we have Jesus in Egypt - till Herods death (Matthew) and Nazareth - 40 days after Jesus birth and Mary's cleansing (Luke) both at the same time. We have Joseph and Mary living in Bethlehem (Matthew) and in Nazareth. (Luke).
Paul obviously doesn't know about Jesus 'virgin' birth at all, he never mentions it, but claims Jesus divinity was proved by his resurrection. Romans 1. Which is strange because he got much of his information from the disciples in Jerusalem. And it wasn't mentioned in his 'vision'? It's not until after Pauls death and the' publication' of the Gospels that we learn of the 'virgin' birth which is vital to Christian doctrine.
The Gospel writers, whoever they were, wanted Jesus to be divine. If you know Judaism most of what Jesus said was just that. His actions were according to Judaistic beliefs. The writers put into Jesus mouth things Jesus would never have said as a Jew. Jesus would certainly have said 'I am a son of God' as all Jews believed God was their Father - according to the OT. 'Never I am THE Son of God'. Not only would the religious leaders, as they did, take exception, but the ordinary people would have been horrified. It was sacrilege. The Jewish Shema taken from Deuteronomy
She-ma yisrael, eloheinu, adonai echad

Hear O’ Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One.

The Gospels writers used the OT (adapted) for many things. Jesus Baptism follows the use of Jewish practises of water - Namaans cleansing. His temptation was the Jewish belief that Satan was given the task of testing men's faith - as with 'Job'. Both 'passed'. Jesus followed many of the rituals of Judaism but rejected the stupid rules. He tried to make life easier for the people trodden down by religious dogma that had no bearing on the 10 commandments. For that he was punished by the religious leaders. Even the trial and Crucifixion stories make no sense. They are so confused. That Jesus, the preacher, was crucified is, IMO, not in doubt. The problem is How, When and Why? We simply don't know.

The Bible is full of 'additions'. Revelations of John is simply Images taken from the OT and Christian interpretation added. The Essenes dod the same thing with their book of Revelations, but added their own dogma.

chris155au
A later date than what?

Earliest manuscripts and documents.

 

Well that's good... afterall it is a major foundation of Western Culture.. a part that has allowed Western Culture to be the most advanced culture in the world. (Ever wonder why the Asian Culture, with the Asians statistically higher IQ, is not the pinnacle of civilization?)

 

Reams of Theological studies demonstrating that the idea of Yeshua throughout the Torah. Here's an odd coincident. the genealogy of the first ancestors of Christ.. from Genesis. This is a list of their names and it spells out. It's based on the meaning of their names.

Man (is) appointed mortal sorrow; (but) the Blessed God shall come down teaching (that) His death shall bring (the) despairing rest.

Here’s the Gospel hidden within a genealogy in Genesis! https://www.khouse.org/articles/1996/44

 

1) you have proven that you do not know what Ad Hom is
2) Paul was no pillar of essential liberty - as per Romans 13. Your claim that he speaks more to human liberty and equality than Jesus is false.

 

Reams of CHRISTIAN Theological studies.......

Reams of JUDIASTIC Theological studies demonstrate the opposite.

Show me the verse that names Jesus in the OT.



Very few scholars even refer to the genealogies in Matthew and Luke. There are so many problems with them

What the list of names has to do with it I've no idea.

One difficulty. . Matt 1 :5-6 (and Luke 3:32). From Perez to David both Matthew and Luke are in agreement with Ruth 4: 18-22; however, a chronological difficulty is found in the time between Salmon and David. Salmon married Rahab the harlot of Jericho. The fall of Jericho took place about the year 1400 B.C. and David was born about the year 1040 B.C. (see 2 Sam 5:4). Thus, a gap of about 360 years exists here with only three names between Salmon and David-Boaz, Obed, Jesse. There are other gaps.
There are many other problems. Jechoniah whose descendants were banned from the throne of Israel. There are many differing opinions and explanations but only the individual can decide what to believe.
The real answer lies in the fact that both genealogies are simply made to give Jesus an origin fitting for a Divine Messiah. They had the history of the Hebrews from the time around circa 1000BCE (time of the tribal leader David). Prior to that we have no evidence for anyone or thing that is written about. No Adam, Noah, Flood, Abraham, Moses, the Exodus and the invasion of Palestine.
In the year 2100/2000BCE (Biblical geanealogy and ancient history). a man Abraham is supposed to have to existed. He is, we are told by supposed 'Moses', from Ur of the Chaldees. But it will be another 1200 years in the future before the Chaldeans rule Ur.
The man Abraham, we are told by 'Moses', bought land from the Hittites. But it will be another 4 centuries before the Hittites appear in the region. Strange don't you think?
The same Abraham met Pharaoh who desired Abrahams 70 year old. The Pharaoh of the time was probably 600 miles from the area of the Nile Delta where Abraham was supposed to be, ruling from Thebes in the South and not Memphis in the delta.
Moses is supposed to have placed Abraham in Ur of the Chaldees. How did he know? The Chaldeans were 5/600 years after his death.
Moses supposedly said that Abraham bought land from the Hittites. Why? Having been brought up in Pharaohs Palace he must have known the history of the Hittites. There was regular contact between the 2 rulers of Egypt and the Hittites - when they weren't fighting. We know that by correspondence between the two now in museums. In one Pharaoh asks the Hittite king for one of his daughters in exchange for a trade agreement. A usual practise in those days.
No Biblical style flood. No Exodus, No 40 years in the desert with impossible miracles, religious marching and camping instructions.
Archaeology shows that Jericho was destroyed - again. It had been destroyed by earthquakes before (being in an earthquake zone) and as recently as 1926 an earthquake caused a lot of destruction in the area.
In the 7th century BCE - while in Babylon - the Hebrews wrote their nation an origin. They use ancient myths and adapted them and wrote an original family story.
They knew a certain amount of history, places and events from the past and wrote their Origin story around them.
When they wrote the story the Chaldeans were well known to them, being in the past century. If you've actually studied the background to the Exodus story you will see their complete lack of understanding of life in the desert

There is NOTHING in the OT that refers to Jesus. It is only Christian interpretation. Why would 'god' spend 2000 years prophesying the advent of his 'son'. Prophesy is for the time - not the distant future. Every prophesy is 'fulfilled' in one way or the other given many centuries.

 

Personally I consider the Japanese to be the most cultured nation.

Western society has been built on force, invasion, slavery - both abroad and at home. Rape of natural resources from conquered nations for western advancement. That's culture?

 

I wish the white man had learned from the Native Americans instead of killing them all

At least two of them got into Congress this year

 

Isn't that the way with invaders. I'm from the UK and we have little to be proud of in our dealings with nations we invaded.

 

You should learn something new every day.

*Although the first Bible printed in America was done in the native Algonquin Indian Language by John Eliot in 1663; the first English language Bible to be printed in America by Robert Aitken in 1782 was a King James Version. Robert Aitken’s 1782 Bible was also the only Bible ever authorized by the United States Congress. He was commended by President George Washington for providing Americans with Bibles during the embargo of imported English goods due to the Revolutionary War. In 1808, Robert’s daughter, Jane Aitken, would become the first woman to ever print a Bible… and to do so in America, of course.*
https://greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/index.html

 

@Giftedone, response forthcoming, or are you done?

 

Do you mean the whole thing or just the Trinitarian formula?

 

You need to read a bit more Japanese history. Guilty of every sin you attribute to 'Western society'. My uncle & his comrades got a close up look at Japanese 'culture' as POWs. Not something I would want any nation to imitate.

Interestingly Japanese treatment of Russian soldiers 40 years earlier had been fine. The brutality we associate with Japan arose with the indoctrination of self-consciously 'Japanese' ideas into soldiers in the 20s & 30s.

 

Have none of those existed throughout Japan's history?

 

1. Nevertheless, i do not debate links, or videos. That is also a rule in this forum. If you have arguments, make them. A video or link is a cop out, not an argument.
2. Basing a worldview on the opinions of youtubers seems very shortsighted.
3. The pursuit of Truth requires dedication to reason and critical thinking, and is not favorable in an ideological echo chamber.
4. People can, and do, believe whatever they want. Everyone has to do their own believing and their own dying.

 

This is just an old heresy, from early in the first century. The apostles, church fathers, and earliest apologists CONSTANTLY preached against the many heretical teachings, from deceivers and enemies of Christianity.

The divinity of Christ is the CORNERSTONE of Christianity, and has been crucial to all of the tenets and orthodoxy of biblical Christianity, from it's inception.

Like so many before, you merely stumble over the Stone of stumbling, and Rock of offense.

 

No, that's phony narrative.

Please.

Really? Only 'Western civilization!', used violence, slavery, and conquest? What kind of history, and what kind of humans do you believe in? Some fantasy, revisionist narrative, from some progressive Indoctrination institution?

This is just anti-christian bigotry, attempting to smear all of western civilization for its 'Christian!' influence, and minimize the significance and advancement that both have had in the world.

 

Yes I understand your point of view but all-in-all the Japanese are no worse in History than any other nation. But we are not talking about war, but culture. For poilteness, cleanliness, treatment of parents etc and general traditions I rate them.