Why is the Heartbeat Bill that's being approved all over the USA contraversial?

I’ve never advocated for banning abortion. You have sputtered about things post after post that have nothing to do with anything I’ve posted in this thread. I made the point you are not consistent with your body autonomy obsession. Your reaction is abortion, abortion, abortion. It proves my point. You aren’t capable of seeing past this issue to other areas where the same principles you claim to espouse are relevant. I find that disturbing from someone so emotional.

 

Then you should be against banning abortion which is taking away women's right to their own body which is slavery.

So you could avoid addressing several posts and pages of my post that you quoted but could NEVER address:


FoxHastings said: ↑
Yup slave owners did anything they wanted to slaves, raped them , FORCED THEM TO GESTATE(HOW DESPICABLE!).

The slave owners took away the blacks RIGHT TO THEIR OWN BODIES EXACTLY LIKE ANTI-CHOICERS WANT TO DO TO WOMEN.

NO,"these people" do NOT think they can do anything to a baby....NO ONE HAS EVER SAID THAT THEY CAN.

But a fetus is NOT a legal person...NO one is until birth.

WTF does that have to do with the post of mine you quoted???

You didn't refute it …..so do you agree with it?

And what do you mean by I "seem" to hate slavery? Doesn't every decent person hate slavery?

OH MY! The EXCUSES by Anti-Choicers are flowing freely this morning …


Slavery is against the law so if you see it, do your civic duty and report it.

Gee, you haven't given one example of this "slavery" you contend is happening...

You are selective in your willingness to NOT let women have autonomy over their bodies.


And so far, you haven't refuted one word of the post of mine you quoted....and didn't answer even one question...


So once AGAIN, YOU cannot state what you mean...just some mysterious allusion to slavery...

AGAIN with no facts, no concise statements, and NO refutation or addressing of the post of mine you keep quoting...

You have no POINT and are doing a good job of proving THAT.


Just once, try responding to my post.....I don't know if you can do it but so far you have NOTHING, refuted NOTHING, proved NOTHING....


Why do keep posting when you have nothing to say ? ( and can't address the post you keep quoting?) """""""

And I never said you were...there's that inability to comprehend the written word again.

That isn't true.
I asked you about things you posted and you ducked and weaved and avoided with flim flam and NO POINT.

Only in your mind.


I NEVER stated I accept some forms of slavery.

probably because there is only ONE form of slavery.

You CLAIM there's more but NEVER said what it was.

No, it isn't.....show a post where I said, " abortion, abortion, abortion, ""

You never had one.

.


You have NEVER pointed any out, NEVER named one.... it's just some idea floating around in your head..

I find all your posts disturbing since there was no point, no facts, ...nothing...

"emotional" ? When was I emotional? I wasn't , YOU just need to attack because you have nothing else...

 

Please read my posts in this thread and think without visceral reaction. I’ve been very plain in a couple places about the slavery you ignore. You like to repeat yourself but I’m not really into that. I’ve made my point repeatedly. The last word goes to you. Surprise us with something new.

 

FoxHastings said: ↑
Then you should be against banning abortion which is taking away women's right to their own body which is slavery.

So you could avoid addressing several posts and pages of my post that you quoted but could NEVER address:


FoxHastings said: ↑
Yup slave owners did anything they wanted to slaves, raped them , FORCED THEM TO GESTATE(HOW DESPICABLE!).

The slave owners took away the blacks RIGHT TO THEIR OWN BODIES EXACTLY LIKE ANTI-CHOICERS WANT TO DO TO WOMEN.

NO,"these people" do NOT think they can do anything to a baby....NO ONE HAS EVER SAID THAT THEY CAN.

But a fetus is NOT a legal person...NO one is until birth.

WTF does that have to do with the post of mine you quoted???

You didn't refute it …..so do you agree with it?

And what do you mean by I "seem" to hate slavery? Doesn't every decent person hate slavery?

OH MY! The EXCUSES by Anti-Choicers are flowing freely this morning …


Slavery is against the law so if you see it, do your civic duty and report it.

Gee, you haven't given one example of this "slavery" you contend is happening...

You are selective in your willingness to NOT let women have autonomy over their bodies.


And so far, you haven't refuted one word of the post of mine you quoted....and didn't answer even one question...


So once AGAIN, YOU cannot state what you mean...just some mysterious allusion to slavery...

AGAIN with no facts, no concise statements, and NO refutation or addressing of the post of mine you keep quoting...

You have no POINT and are doing a good job of proving THAT.


Just once, try responding to my post.....I don't know if you can do it but so far you have NOTHING, refuted NOTHING, proved NOTHING....


Why do keep posting when you have nothing to say ? ( and can't address the post you keep quoting?) """""""








And I never said you were...there's that inability to comprehend the written word again.





That isn't true.
I asked you about things you posted and you ducked and weaved and avoided with flim flam and NO POINT.





Only in your mind.


I NEVER stated I accept some forms of slavery.

probably because there is only ONE form of slavery.

You CLAIM there's more but NEVER said what it was.






No, it isn't.....show a post where I said, " abortion, abortion, abortion, ""





You never had one.


.


You have NEVER pointed any out, NEVER named one.... it's just some idea floating around in your head..




I find all your posts disturbing since there was no point, no facts, ...nothing...

"emotional" ? When was I emotional? I wasn't , YOU just need to attack because you have nothing else...

First, thank you for exposing my post so often.....and making it obvious you cannot address it in any way


YOU could do something new.....like make a point...…..state a fact.....answer my questions....all that would be startlingly NEW.

 

Well no. I’m in agreement that abortions should be kept mainly to early gestation. A preterm birth with barely functional lungs once outside the womb is a baby that will be floundering. If given treatment to temporize the lungs, it can live.

Brain function is early too I believe. How much I don’t know. I’m not an obstetric provider and haven’t studied fetal development in a long time. I don’t think it’s a non-sequitur as opposed to being a poorly worded paragraph. The point I was trying to make is that if the fetus lacks the biological functions necessary for basic life, it’s not a person yet, and that should be the differentiation.

I’m personally not a fan of late term abortions, or even abortions when the lungs are developing (mid-20s in weeks I think). I don’t get why this is still a thing. It seems pretty logical to me.

 

I still feel you're being a little vague about what you mean.
Or at least you're not really specifying whether those functions begin early in gestation or much later, which maybe you did not intend to.

 

Most of the necessary functions occur earlier than later. First trimester typically. I’m an advocate for women and abortions. The limit I draw is when the fetus develops the organs needed for life. That’s when the game changes.

 

The bill will be a law so get used to it.

 

What if the fetus could be kept alive on an artificial blood oxygenation device, with IV feeding? (hypothetically)

I mean, if I paid some expert scientists $10 million and told them I wanted them to come up with a way to keep a fetus alive outside of the womb, I think they could do it.

 

Such a thing would already be implemented. Unfortunately, it’s not feasible, except later on in the gestation. A lot of intricate things are needed via the mother, that just can’t be substituted by artificial means.

I get what you’re saying. But outside of being intubated, and support d with meds (lungs that need more time), a much younger fetus won’t be able to develop into a person.

As such that’s where my line is. Potential life is not life. It’s a weird concept, but the present time is all that matters.

 

That's when it does change. At 23 weeks the fetus has protection, no abortion unless the health/life of woman and/or fetus is at risk.

That is fine since most abortions are done between 8-18 weeks.

 

Then go ahead and do it....what are you waiting for?

 

Because, I want to kill babies. My body, my right.

 

But if it were possible, you'd view it as a person?

What if there are some breakthroughs in medical technology in the future? Will your opinion change?

 

Probably not. To need extensive life support measures, like circulatory support, does not fit my definition of what is a person. Just because the fetus could DEVELOP into a person does not mean that at the present moment it is a person. If that makes sense.

 

I see, so if a baby needs extensive life support measures it's not a person.

 

You don't think that hospitals have tried every imaginable way to keep babies alive who are born under 20 weeks old for parents who really want the child? 21 weeks, 4 days is the youngest they were able to keep a baby alive, and that baby had numerous health issues. $10 million is a drop in the bucket. A premie can run upwards of a $1 million for 5 month ICU stay.

So why would they waste life saving technology on a premature infant who has no, or very little chance of survival when that same equipment is needed to keep a 25 week old premie alive? It's called triage. You save the ones who are most likely to survive. Most hospitals have very limited premature ICU capabilities. Doctors have to make this call every day.

 

I see, so if it can't survive outside of the mother, kill it.

What if, hypothetically, the baby just needed 2 more weeks?

You don't think the woman would owe it to her child to keep it in there just 2 more weeks?

 

What you going to do, Dr.? Shove a cork into her? WTF. Do you read your own posts?

Letting nature take it's course is not killing it. And we are talking about mothers who are trying to save their infants - you don't think they would have kept the child in uterus if they could have? Some women go into labor early. Not every pregnancy goes as planned. That's real life.

You really don't understand pregnancy do you?

 

And the vast majority of late term abortions are for foetal abnormality incompatible with life

 

And are you going to pay the bill?

Love that question because not one RW will answer it. Case here the other day with a baby born with a rare pancreatic anomaly - we had to fly him interstate and the total bill was over $200,000. And that was just one child

 

That a very dishonest answer since you were discussing one of your imaginary, irrelevant, "saw it in a movie it must be true" , bizarre scenarios.



IN REAL LIFE …...a fetus becomes a person at birth no matter how many weird scenarios you cook up....

 

WHO TF said that?

NO ONE.

She owes the fetus anything SHE decides she owes it....from ZERO to everything...

It is not what YOU think she owes....YOU have nothing to do with it...

See, YOU don't get to tell other people what to do with their lives….thank goodness!!



I

 

You have no right to kill babies....that's emotional hyperbole with no point.

 

I would be willing to make abortion illegal except for the health of the mother if they passed a law that said that any woman who was denied an abortion would have to be provided room board and medical care during the pregnancy and delivery and the baby would be cared for and placed for adoption by the government.
And if the anti-abortion zealots want to put their money where their mouths are, they would start a nation-wide adoption registry and take in all of the unwanted babies.
If liberals can have their sanctuary cities for immigrants, the right-wingers can have their sanctuaries for unwanted babies.