If the left and right could see through my eyes.

Yeah the lottery needs to go.

 

Those (x,y) ideology graphs should have center left and center right at the poles, with the far left and right converging at the center.

 

Why is that? It gives people from countries with historically low migration rates to the US a chance. They are vetted just the same as anyone else.

 

I think probably the worst thing that the other side gets wrong is that they think my position is a partisan caricature of them that is easier to attack.

Look... There is only one reality. You don't have to assume that everybody is just a blind partisan hack. Consider the fact that there may be someone out there who took the time to research and is taking the most reasonable position that follows from the available information.

Of course, there is also partisan or ideological blind bias. And fake neutrality is not different. Definitely not better. Often times worse, because those who claim "neutrality" haven't even made an effort to look at reality to try to figure out if one of the positions is right. So besides being biased, it's lazy..

So, bottom line, that's the worst thing that you and others on "the other side" get wrong about me. And the only thing I ask of them is to show me an example. Because if they can't, they're only blowing smoke. Can you show me an example?

 

The system was designed to do that, but it has been abused by those who use it. Just like anchor babies, they got to go.

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2018/02/15...on-and-eliminate-reckless-visa-lottery-secure

 

Overturning birthright citizenship sets a dangerous precedent. How far back does your family tree have to go back to be called a citizen? Who sets the number? Who makes sure it doesn’t change to suit their goals?

 

As for reality, I agree there is only one in which is interpreted in many subjective ways. I have many times on this forum watched for example moral universalists argue who’s view of moral universalism is the correct view of moral universalism.

As for the requested example, I gave one in the OP; Each side sees the other as trying to destroy America. If that does not answer your question then please clarify as I covered a bit of ground in the OP.

 

I see. So you just don't believe that reality can be interpreted objectively. That's a pretty nihilistic point of view but... Ok....

What the hell does that have to do with partisan politics? You're derailing your own thread. Is there a reason?

No! That is your caricature. I am very much progressive and anti-Trump. And I don't think that anybody is "trying" to destroy America. I do, however alert the right that what they support may be detrimental to the country. But "destroy"... that's the most partisan caricature I have seen on any side. I mean, not that I haven't seen anybody make such an accusation. But only the most extremists.

And now... you.

So you don't have a specific example.... Just a wild claim... That's what I thought.

 

I don't have a problem with the bias. The biggest problem I see with your post is that you refer to CNN and Fox as news channels. They are both propaganda, but from different sides. To me, CNN is like a 24 hour version of lord haw haw. I guess the left sees Fox as Tokyo Rose. That's not news, and complaining about bias is like complaining about cheerleaders being biased. They're paid to be biased.

I think I see the problem and a solution, which I have been quite consistent with. My friends on the left will want something like universal healthcare, and I tell them that they should petition their local government. Do you know the answer I always receive? I bet you can guess. I'm told that it's going to happen nationally, and I'm going to just love life once they get their way. From where I come from, those are fighting words. You don't get up in a man's face and treat them like a child that doesn't want to eat his vegetables, but he's going to eat them anyway.

 

In BOLD above...you answer your own question in your comments above. Most people are partisan because for whatever reason, no matter how untrue or absurd, they have a comfort zone regarding things like politics and religion, etc.

I understand why so many people are greedy and self-serving but I don't understand why they refuse to look at the bigger picture (than themselves)? I'm inclined to say ignorance but this will surely be challenged. Why are most people incapable of asking these simple questions when confronted with today's complex issues/problems; What is in the best interest of the USA? And, what is in the best interest of Earth? I can understand putting our own needs first but I don't understand why they are willing to abandon the needs of their nation and Earth?

The 'FIX' is obviously not simple! In fact, good luck even defining a 'fix'...

 

If you ever get one, can I get a ride through Compton with you?

 

I believe that scientific standards are the best way to reveal an objective reality. In politics reality tends to be colored by one’s political affiliation.

The moral universalism example was to show the subjective nature of a perceived reality.

Many I have talked to on the left and right say that the other side is trying to destroy America. I never claimed that was your view.

 

The fix is really simple. Hell, my far left sister figured that out years ago. It goes something like this...


She told me she hates me and people like me, that I'm blah blah blah blah, and to just go away and don't come back. I said fine, and that's the last I ever heard from her.

 

I looked thru the eyes of a leftist all the way thru Slick Billy Clinton, and the only thing that actually changed was the letter I was instructed to dislike..

 

Better to stay out of it and not declare yourself one way or the other. Of course, the ideologues (on both sides) won't tolerate that. To them, that's like telling the Spanish Inquisition you're undecided betwixt Jesus and Allah.

 

O.M.G

What's happened to the Left this century is a bloody disaster. And no small tragedy, as evidenced by your experience

 

You don't think that politics is objective reality? Trump either committed a criminal offense, or he didn't. That's reality. It's as real as a chemical reaction or the falling of an apple. What part of it cannot be objectively analyzed using scientific standards?

You assume it's the position of everybody on the right or left. Again: I have seen it from extremists. Not from the majority. And that's the very definition of "caricature": taking an extreme, and presenting it as if it were the standard. Which is what, I believe, you were attacking on your OP.

 

I think it all boils down to tribalism and vested interests. For example Trump will be found innocent by the Senate which will set a future precedence allowing future Presidents no matter their party affiliation to freely investigate their political opponents. Seems to me that politics is often more about the short game than the long game. In the long term this may come back to haunt the Republicans. With that said the left are no better as each do all they can to protect their own interests. In politics the ends justify the means and the means are double standards, hypocrisy and suspendible principles when it is politically advantageous.

 

Why do they have 'historically low migration to the US'?

 

Lots of civilised countries don't have birthright citizenship. Birthright citizenship is a recipe for disaster.

 

The unfortunate aspect to these common scenarios today is that most people have far more in common with each other, usually sharing similar goals and priorities, than they have in disagreement. Seems the problem is we have lost compassion and empathy towards others even at the risk of alienating ourselves from others. Where there is a will...there is a way! Most of us no longer have the will...

 

Honest question, what makes you a citizen of those countries then, and what stops someone from deciding you’re no longer a citizen?

 

Politics is an ideology that is not universally agreed upon. It is that disagreement as to what is or is not legal that makes it subjective and thus divisive. As for science, science analyzes tangibles that follow rules. Political ideology is an intangible as it is an idea that cannot be scientifically tested.

Once we form a positive affiliation with a person or group we also form a positive bias. This bias makes it easy to accept the positives and difficult to impossible to see the negatives. The same applies in reverse. The more of an emotional connection we have to a person or group, the more of a bias we have for or against them.

 

Which countries? Those like my own, without birthrights? Why paperwork, Dear .. lots of it! And a demonstrated connection via citizen parents.

 

I guess it didn't help that I treated her like my sister. She's a bit of a militant lesbian feminist, and me poking fun at her for having lesbian poetry books, and asking if she can point out the good parts so I can rub one out didn't help things any.

I'm sure her attitude and lifestyle are championed by her friends, but she's always been very in-your-face about being a lesbian. My brother and I love her, but the hell if we're going to stay quiet about bringing one of her squeezes to the family BBQ and spend the entire time making out. She did that once, and realize, we're all 40ish at the time. So they're sitting together kissing, and my brother brought his videocamera out and I yelled "cue the porn music!!!". That didn't go over very well. She mentioned something about how we both had our wives with us, which was true. The only difference was that we weren't going at it hard while the nephews and nieces were running around playing.