Burisma Bombshell

Discussion in 'United States' started by Esperance, Nov 20, 2019.

  1. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    So Trump gets impeached like Clinton and the Senate forgives Trump for eating a baby in Times Square. Pretty much politics as usual in the Trump/DC swamp. Time for some new political parties in Washington.
     
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  2. Esperance

    Esperance Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is more than a stretch. Trump himself clarified his stance.

    All Sondland has is presumptions. There has to be an actual request. The DOJ has already established that in their analysis of the situation.
     
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  3. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    Does the current Republican Senate look to the 1996 Democrats for guidance now? It sounds like you're admitting there's a crime that was committed. Trump's obstruction and attempted bribery are as obvious to me as Clinton's perjury was, which is to say: totally obvious.

    Do you really think Rudy Giuliani was working on his own on this? Of course you don't think that.
     
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  4. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    Uh, you guys have to deal with the facts now.


    Fourth, as I testified previously, Mr. Giuliani’s requests were a quid pro quo for
    arranging a White House visit for President Zelensky. Mr. Giuliani demanded that Ukraine
    make a public statement announcing investigations of the 2016 election/DNC server and
    Burisma. Mr. Giuliani was expressing the desires of the President of the United States, and we
    knew that these investigations were important to the President.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2019
  5. Esperance

    Esperance Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is the narrative in English:

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...eveals-hunter-biden-group-made-165-million-mp
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2019
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  6. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  7. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    You act like people raking in millions is somehow wrong. :(
     
  8. Esperance

    Esperance Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trump did not make the statement and Giulianai may say something completely different.

    Pence has already claimed that Sondland perjured himself today by claiming that a conversation happened that Pence says never happened.

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pe...dland-claim-on-ukraine-warning-never-happened
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2019
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  9. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    So censure him if it makes you feel better, this is no high crime or misdemeanor.
     
  10. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    "Derkach then demanded "President Zelensky must pick up the phone, dial Trump, ask for help and cooperation in the fight against corruption and fly to Washington. The issue of combating international corruption in Ukraine with the participation of citizens, businessmen and U.S. officials should become a key during the meeting of the two presidents."

    Isn't that what Trump tried to do?
     
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  11. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough. Then explain how the "quid pro quo" has anything to do with Trumps motivation for asking for the investigations. Democrats can't read his mind. Nothing criminal about Biden's actions. Corruption, on the other hand is pretty obvious.
     
  12. Esperance

    Esperance Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Obama allowed Koch-Glitsch to sell pipeline equipment to Russia for the Crimea, through
    a Burisma holding company, by way of a backdoor deal involving the
    Koch-Glitsch Italia branch. And while sanctions were in place !!

    Eric Ciaramella interfaced with Italia, in particular with Natalia (Natasha)
    Cherenkova who ran the branch and Elena Romanova, the CFO, who ran the money
    through the Cyprus/Burisma banking network. (They all speak Russian and that is also why Joe Biden personally introduced Ciaramella to Rienzi)

    Plenty of folks got a cut. Obama had to visit with Rienz in October to compare
    notes because of the Misfud technology. Biden's money did not come from
    Burisma profits in the Ukraine. It came by way of this Russian deal.

    Giuliani found part of the laundering trail through Cyprus.

    This actually does have criminal aspects.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2019
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  13. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    What statement? I'm talking about Trump's own ambassador, who is a big-time GOP donor, saying there was a quid-pro-quo being directed by Trump through his lawyer. That's what Sondland said. How is that not devastating? Of course it is. Sondland directly stated Trump was behind dangling a White House invitation to Ukraine in exchange for an investigation into the Crowdstrike conspiracy and Burisma. That's already bribery. He also claimed he was repeatedly obstructed by the State Dept. So there's obstruction.

    Sondland later went on to presume Trump was behind the withholding of military aid also. Which is bribery of a much more serious sort. AND, in hindsight, investigating Burisma meant investigating the Bidens.

    And this is a guy who donated a million to Trump saying this!

    You really think we're going to see Rudy testify under oath about all this? We may if he gets in indicted, but he's certainly not going to voluntarily appear before Congress.

    Yes, this is interesting, we have a big-time Trump donor and the Republican VP calling each other liars. One of them has testified under oath so far. The other has not. And won't.
     
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  14. Cubed

    Cubed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well it was him and his 'associates' or whatever that means. I guess he only earned 3m. And likely none. From the sounds of it, They were looking for people with international connections such as an Ex President of Poland, the Ex CIA Counter Terrorism Unit, and the son of a VP. All who have (he said, sarcastically) extensive knowledge in the liquid natural gas industry.

    My question is: is it illegal for a company to appoint people to the board without experience in the industry? Or is just a bad idea? (unless if your goal is international networking, then wouldn't it be a good idea?)

    Is there a law in the Ukraine that says only experience individuals can be appointed to such a board?
     
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  15. Cubed

    Cubed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    yeah, I'd like to see Pence or his aid say that this meeting didn't happen under oath.

    Though, if they believe there wouldnt' be any records, it would stand to be a he-said/she-said situation
     
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  16. Cubed

    Cubed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    THat would be using the announcement of an investigation into a political candidate.

    Candidacies can fall on the most legal of things that look bad. Which would have been the goal from Trumps perspective, if there was a QPQ.
     
  17. Dutch

    Dutch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What services might that be?
     
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  18. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    My point is that you don't know that. He may have wanted action on the cleanup of corruption.
     
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  19. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Having direct access to the VP of the U.S.
     
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  20. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    A process crime on a dubious impeachment isn't a high crime or misdemeanor. New party or not, the LW will always attack conservatives in a disgusting and unethical manner.
     
  21. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    That would be a dangerous assumption for anyone to make. It's so easy to record people nowadays.
     
  22. Phyxius

    Phyxius Well-Known Member

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    Clinton was impeached for a "process crime."
     
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  23. Dutch

    Dutch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I know it, you know it. PF Liberals know it. Everyone knows it.
     
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  24. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    Consulting, presumably. It's no secret businesses like to have connected people on the payroll. There are good reasons for that and not-so-good reasons. For example, if I think company X is bribing Ukrainian govt. officials to steal business from me, it's useful to have someone like Joe Biden on hand so I can get the right people to put a stop to it, instead of wading through the beauracracy.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2019
  25. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So people with real world skills AND Hunter Biden.
     

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