Oklahoma State's Ogbongbemiga tests positive for COVID-19 after attending Tulsa protest!

She replied to me and @Gatewood in her Post #6 in this thread. If she didn't intend to single me or Gatewood out, then why did she quote either of us as a preface to her snotty little over-generalization?! You don't have to be in "reply" mode to put posts into threads!

No -- she smeared me with an overly-broad brush, and I called her on it! It's very typical snipe-and-run behavior by those on the liberal Left, and I've noticed it here for YEARS... but sometimes I get damned weary of it....

Read my SIG LINE immediately below... it's been there since BEFORE all this big rioting/arson/looting/protest extravaganza got started!

 

Ha! Did some leftist take a pot shot at me? I wouldn't know. I currently have most of our leftists on ignore as I got tired of replying to their free-reins trolling and punnishment-immunity ad hominems.

 

I think this doesn't recognize the situation with policing and prosecution in Minneapolis.

My understading is that these officers DID have body cameras and at least had those cameras turned on as they went to the scene - as is required.

Let's remember that there were black officers inside that police force who had sued the force over stuff like Lt. Knoll, president of the police officers foundation, wearing a white power badge added to his uniform.

And, the rules in Minneapolis allow for choke holds that result in uncosciousness - just not murder. So, those other officers who were also seen with knees in the victims back probably thought they were doing the right thing.

 

And I feel the same about the protesters at the capitol bldg in Lansing, Michigan. Most of the George Floyd protesters are at least wearing masks. Nevertheless ...

 

Hit the Report button. The mods here are overly accommodating towards the right. They once deleted a post of mine just for stating my opinion that Trumpism is a cult.

 

No, Monster... I'm not one of these people who go crying and whining to the Moderators about every damn thing after getting 'my wittle feelings hurt'. And, I don't ever put people on an "Ignore" status, either. In my own opinion, I were to put someone on "ignore", then I've just allowed my opponent to declare victory over me because I would clearly be too chickenshit to confront an opposing position or argument....

In many years of posting here, I've won my fair share, and I've lost quite a few also -- often learning new information in the total process. But at least I do 'show up'....

 

Naw, I suggest that you don't put them on 'ignore'. Confront them head-on. I, personally, would feel like a coward if I were to do that, but that is just my opinion, and my choice. Still, I can see your position of not wanting to waste time fooling around with people who just 'snipe-and-run', or refuse to defend their position with anything that actually makes sense.

Instead of putting them on 'ignore', blow their arguments 'out of the water'! It usually isn't that hard to do....

 

These police procedures of using "choke holds" has got to stop immediately! If a person being arrested or detained is too violent or unruly, as Floyd was reported to be when he was arrested for using counterfeit money (raising all kind of hell about getting into the police car), then the police should gas him or taze him -- and then throw his ass into the car, and take him to the police station for booking or whatever they need to do.

The "optics" of having a Black's head under a police officer's knee is totally destructive to every good thing the police force tries to do every day in maintaining LAW AND ORDER, getting counterfeiters and other criminal creeps off the streets and into jail where they belong! Why make martyrs out of criminal crudballs?!

 

OK, but let's remember he was a suspect - not a "criminal crudball".

And, I would claim we know little of what methods police were using and how much difficulty they were facing from Floyd before the actual murder.

Tazing doesn't always work. A while back I woke at 4 am up to some guy knocking out the windows in the front of my house and bashing away at the door with a large piece of concrete. So, I stood there in robe and barefeet in a pool of glass, talking to this guy through the broken windows while my wife was on the 911. He wanted my car keys, for one thing. I was asking him where he wanted to go, whether I could drive him (like THAT was going to happen!), etc.

Anyway, when the police arrived, he wasn't particularly cooperative. They thought they were going to have to fight this guy. He was big and they didn't like that idea.

They told me they would have tazed him, but his clothing was think enough that tazing wouldn't work. So, they talked to him for about 20 minutes and he finally surrendered.

Time is on the side of the cops. It's one of their most reliable weapons.

What's this "gas him" idea?

 

There are several different kinds of hand-held gas canisters ('tear' gas and others) that police can use to subdue persons that they are arresting, depending on the situation. I remember being 'tear-gassed' myself a very long time ago (during Vietnam anti-war demonstrations), and believe me, it is horrible!

As for your situation with the violent idiot who was trying to assault you and your wife in your home -- don't you have a weapon of self-defense? I highly recommend that all law-abiding citizens of the proper age should have at least a 12-gauge pump shotgun and a revolver or pistol of .380 caliber, or greater -- and plenty of ammunition.

As far as Floyd goes, he was caught red-handed trying to use counterfeit money in the Target store, which was why he was being arrested in the first place. BUT, he SHOULD have been properly arrested, charged, and given his 'day in court'.

NOTHING these Minneapolis police did resulting in his death makes any sense to me at all! It just flat was NOT NECESSARY! The fired police officers AND the Minneapolis police department must answer for this in all aspects!

 

All agreed.

Except, I don't see someone attacking my house as a death sentence offense. And, I'm not a fan of everyone owning guns so they can execute those they think are offending, have accidents involving children, misinterpret the desperate needs of those knocking on doors. I have absolutely no idea what my guy wanted. He said zero words. He didn't appear to be on drugs. He pantomimed that he wanted my keys. But, I doubt he was trying for grand theft auto. Where did he want to go? He didn't ask for anything else.

My view is more that the police need more support (the support that includes better numbers, more training, better pay, etc.). And, I installed an alarm system.

 

There is only a couple of seconds of "blanks" which occurred when he was in the police car and then pulled out. The "all kinds of hell" no doubt came from the officer's version of events and lasted no more than a couple of seconds. The NY post created the video of the event splicing footage from several CCTV cameras and bystander phone cameras.

 

I respect your opinion, and your high regard for life -- even when it's that of someone like the weird creep you described. You are a much kinder, nicer person than I am.... I disagree with the foundation of your 'leniency' attitude, but respect it nevertheless. May the alarm system serve you well... and I'd still recommend that you equip yourself with a good handgun, and a shotgun -- just in case. All the best to you!

 

So far, I haven't seen one news report that enlarges on the topic of whether or not Minneapolis police wear body cameras, or, if they do, what the videos from all four of the officers at the Floyd George situation reveal. Why not?!

NOTHING can excuse killing Floyd -- that should be made crystal-clear by all of us!

But we need to get away from all the OUTGROWTH from this tragedy and focus on the FACTS: Floyd was arrested for passing counterfeit money in a Target store. He should have been taken to the police station, booked, and then put into a holding cell until he had some kind of preliminary hearing, or was released after posting bond, or whatever the hell it is that they do in Minneapolis when people are charged with a FEDERAL crime like counterfeiting (Title 18, Section 472 of the United States Code).

Evidently these "choke-holds" are used routinely by police departments all over the United States. If that's the real issue, let's change the policies regarding subduing suspects involved in crimes -- WE DON'T HAVE TO WRECK LAW ENFORCEMENT IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY IN ORDER TO DO THAT!

 

I will add that I was on the hook for more than $10K worth of damage to my home. And, it was traumatizing, especially for my wife.

Obviously, this also applies to the Republican national convention and Trump's rallies (where Trump demands the largest possible crowd of people willing to totally ignore COVID protection).

Surely there is a more important and longer ranging problem represented by the ongoing list of nonviolent offenders murdered by police, the identification by the FBI of white supremacy being the sole source of terrorism in the USA, and the fact that these are the tip of the iceberg of unequal treatment of minorities in the USA.

 

The use of chokeholds and body cameras is not a description of the problems presented by the Minneapolis police force. It goes WAY beyond that.

The footage you want is evidence in a murder. It's not uncommon for such evidence to be denied to the pubic.

There are legal issues with bodycamera footage, by the way. It can photograph those who are not of interest, for one thing. People are not thrilled by police photographing peaceful protestors. That kid of information has been used against legal and peaceful protestors in the past.

Seattle has had a policy of leaving police body cameras turned off when facing protests. That's been a continuing policy issue. Last night, our mayor stated that she had just ordered that all police boday cameras be on during protests (at least - not sure if it is broader).

Also, police in Seattle can still wear the black tape that indicates "remorse" for lost policemen, but they have to stop using that as a way of blocking out their badge number so they can't be identifie!!

Seriously! The mayor had to take action on that!! In Seattle!

 

Well, believe this if nothing else -- if there is video content from any and all cameras, police-worn or otherwise, it should definitely be introduced into evidence for the prosecution and/or for the defense!

I'm an unrepentant right-winger, but I do not (NOT) support anybody -- police or others -- committing crimes!

George Floyd was in the process of being arrested for committing a FEDERAL CRIME -- passing counterfeit money, at a Target store.

The police officers are being charged for either having MURDERED him, making him a victim of MANSLAUGHTER, or, doing nothing to STOP it!

Floyd never got "his day in court", and that's a travesty of justice. The cops, however, will face trial, and that is only right and proper. Let JUSTICE be done! But, again, we don't have to wreck the whole concept of LAW AND ORDER in the entire United States in order for justice to be done!

 

I absolutely agree with what you say here. While I'm more on the left side, our society absolutely needs police who are well trained, have sufficient numbers, are well compensated, etc.

I'd heard that Floyd was being arrested on a counterfeit money charge.

I haven't heard whether he is claimed to have copied some bills with a color copier, or was part of some serious ring of some sort. So far, it sounds more like it was amature hour - in which case I sould be doubtful he was facing much time even though it was a federal crime.

 

You are probably right, and we'll never know how a verdict would have gone in Floyd's case because, as I said, he never got his day in court -- and I put the blame for THAT squarely on the police officers who were attempting to arrest him. I fully support the fact that each of these fired police officers must (MUST) face all charges against them in a court of law, and, if found guilty, be rightfully convicted and face sentencing as dictated by a judge or jury! No question about that at all....

It will all come out in the trials for all four police officers, but it will take a long, long, long time. Meanwhile, the hyperliberal Left wants to eviscerate or shut down police departments all over the United States, which is absolutely INSANE!

 

I don't agree that is what the left wing wants. Wanting zero policing is indeed insane, but it is certainly a statement that can't be confused with the tweaks that get proposed as solutions. As of today there isn't much terminology for better direction in policing.

We hear ideas from politicians like maybe restricting choke holds. But, that's obviously insane, too, as it doesn't address the white supremacy that has invaded our police force and the use of other forms of deadly force, the lack of interest in working with the population being policed, etc.

Everybody knows we're going to continue to need policing, investigation, courts, etc.

But, focusing on ever increasing power of policing is where our national leaders are directing us - which is not a solution. There is plenty of evidence throughout history on where increasing police power leads.

There are other forces, too. There is the fact that our military industry wants to continue selling it's products even when we reduce foreign war - thus making police force sales of war equipment a big deal. There is the fact that many of our police are coming from the numbers of those trained by our military in methods that are absolutely not acceptable in peacetime civilian policing. We have our serious problem with white supremacy that defines citizens as garbage, not those to be protected and served. We have our preexisting problem of nearly inescabable generational poverty.

These problems can't all be laid at the feet of police, and for that very reason we need to be more focused on success in other areas in order to allow policing to be more successful. Rolling down our streets with ever larger tanks and ranks of soldiers is just not a solution. It can't be.

 

Yours is a well-written, logically put-together post, and I agree with much of what you say. Certainly, with the technology available in 2020, ALL police officers should have body cameras, and USE THEM during every moment that the officer is involved in any interaction, good, bad, or purely routine, with the public -- period. That's for the good of the public -- and -- for the good of the police, too!

But more powerful weaponry, vehicles, and personal equipment is necessary also. The criminals have the very latest, most powerful weapons, the latest technology, and they're smart -- they have 'gurus' to figure out how best to implement the technology to commit the most profitable, or, most destructive crimes -- and get away with all of it.

Think about it. Today's drug cartel's 'soldiers' are better-equipped than the military personnel of many smaller countries. Even street criminals down in the 'hood' brandish very powerful weapons, including LARGE caliber handguns, tactical shotguns, and even submachine guns, too. They have grenades, 'flash-bangs', and different kinds of booby-traps, including satchel charge explosive devices. If the police are not at least equally armed, they're at a huge disadvantage....

The FIRST thing we should do, immediately, is declare that no police force EVER uses so-called 'choke-hold' methods any more. There are many different ways to 'subdue' unruly persons when they are being arrested, including tear gas, other kinds of gas, taser devices, etc. Or, if those don't work, the police can use billy clubs, which have been successfully used to make even the most violent criminals give it up and go peacefully for hundreds of years.... Sometimes, low-tech is best.

 

I suspect the most important weapons cartels have is that of cowing the population.

We''re not there yet.

But, we do need the police and the population to be on the same side. When that fails, criminals win.

And, we do have major areas where police and citizens certainly are NOT on the same side.