Remembering Edward Snowden

Ah another 'last word' person, I get it, you think you 'win' if you get the last word, no matter how silly it makes you look.
Go ahead.

 

Snowden is certainly among the top 5 of modern day whistleblowers who have helped their fellow Americans more thoroughly understand the many crimes of the federal government.

Snowden, Assange, Manning, Binney and Drake are the top 5.

 

~ Don't forget Trump !

 

If Trump were a whistleblower interested in standing for the truth, he would have pardoned all the others while he had the chance. Sorry.

 

First Assange is an entirely different case than Snowden, as Snowden actually purloined the documents, Assange merely published what someone else gave him. There is no evidence that he was involved in the process of stealing the documents. Assange's only crime is publishing embarrassing things about the Democrats and the state department. By the standards establishment with the Pentagon papers Assange cannot be held guilty for publishing what he was given by third parties.

 

~ Trump was indeed a whistleblower - and the loudest one. He pulled the curtain back on the DOJ corruption. He exposed the tainted FBI and fired the Director. He Tweeted every detail of the fake and now infamous 'Russia Conspiracy Theory'. He informed us that he was illegally spied on by the Obama administration - and was correct. He pointed out the "fake news" and misinformation that dumbs down a significant portion of the population.
No wonder both parties want the guy to disappear. Who knows why he didn't pardon certain people. Maybe Snowden is safer where he is ?

 

LOL --- yes not if in politics and on the right team.. Clapper and Clinton Testament to that one - Lying their pants off to Congress - in an effort to cover up criminal activity by Gov't - against US citizens ..

A clear and present threat to National Security - unlike the Capital Protest - "Russiagate" "Stormygate" "Ukraingate" and so on.

 

All that is basically true, but Trump's failures outweigh his achievements. His failure to get us out of Syria and elsewhere are rather like Obama's failure to close Gitmo.

Both failures show POTUS to be unable to stand against the Deep State.

Trump's being Bibi's right hand man mean he is happy to have Israel controlling the US government. Trump is no whistleblower because he is an immoral man, one incapable or unwilling to do the right thing when it mattered. Rather than take the moral high ground in the Covid deception, he and his children participated in the plunder of the CARES Act.

 

1. William Binney is not in jail nor in exile overseas.

2. The evidence of Snowden filing a formal complaint does not exist. There is evidence of ONE email sent to the Office of General Counsel. This is it:
https://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/snowden-email-660x1291.jpg

In short, Snowden is lying about that, as he's lied about many things. Considering he's a traitor who sold out his country, it's hardly surprising he's lying about what he's done.

 

~ You make good points as usual. However Trump was the best we could do. I doubt anyone would dare try what he did with immigration, China and North Korea . I hope others with more political decorum and experience will take over the America First agenda.

 

Perhaps - but only in ways that related to him as far as I can see. Should have pardoned Assange/Snowden. Noticed Biden has doubled down on the attack on Assange - Free Speech/information/press - for his exposing corruption in the DNC/Hillary -

 

wow.

 

Of course that's the question being addressed. It's on the OP.

And my response was "He's a hero who deserves to go to prison."

Next time you decide to jump into the middle of a discussion, you might want to check what that discussion is about.

 

"Deserve" being the operative word. Just because someone broke the law -does not mean they deserve to go to prison.

Basic logical fallacy 101. The question is not " is it the law" so you ranting "Its the law" over and over - does not answer the question .. "does this incident of law breaking merit prison" .. and if so - as asked you previously .. how much prison .. what should the punishment be.

I await you to back up your claim that Snowden Deserves Jail Time for his crime - and how much Jail time ..

 

The Snowden revelations and subsequent response from the Obama administration is probably the most shameful offense by the administration against the people during the Obama tenure. Here you have a government that is violating the constitutional rights of millions of its citizens, and a man that exposes it. In the wake of this knowledge being made public there was no apology made, no promises to do better, no system set up for greater accountability. Just a clampdown on whistleblowers and leakers, and persecution of individuals involved in the process of bringing to light embarrassing truths about our government.

Snowden knew that by making this information public, he risked permanent expulsion from his prior life. But he chose to make the information public anyway because he felt the public benefit outweighed the personal risk he would endure. It is a decision scant few ever make. That sort of willingness to take on great personal risk for the benefit of others makes him a heroic patriot.

 

Oh. So now you change the conversation. Yes, he deserves to go to prison. I wish it weren't so, but he does deserve it. That's how a nation of laws works.

Snowden himself knows he deserves to go to prison. "I've volunteered to go to prison with the government many times,"
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/edward-snowden-ive-offered-go-prison-u-s-many-times-n439131

Now... did you have a point to make other than this? Do you not believe we should be a country of laws? I can't think of any other reason why anybody would claim Snowden shouldn't go to prison. If that's what you claim.

That's a dumb question... .whatever time the law dictates. What possible relevance does that have in this discussion?

 

You are not familiar with some of the details in the Snowden case.

He absolutely DID try to work through the chain of command and proper channels and all that. They rejected him, and Snowden learned from the way the system treated Thomas Drake that working through the chain of command is never successful. He was right. Many cases show the system does its best to cover up the wrong doing, not correct the problems.

See and ye shall find.

 

The chain of command starts with his superior. If they don't respond or the response is not satisfactory, he goes to the head of the Agency, who must report it to the IG, who must report it to the head of the DNI. And the head of the DNI must inform Congress. If this doesn't happen, he can go to Congress directily. And if they don't respond, he can go to the press.

For example, the whistleblower in the Ukraine case went to Congress because they weren't informed. But Snowden didn't do this.

 

You were the one that said Trump deserves to go to Jail - I asked you to back up your claim that Trump deserves Jail. How is this changing the conversation Mr. Projecting your failings onto others .. as you have been trying to divert and denying your own words the whole time.. claiming that you only said "He broke the law" ... which is false.

Now - after having to back you into a corner of your own making .. I am asking you to support your claim.

"That's how a nation of Law works" -You clearly have no idea how our nation of Laws works - if you think the mere act of lawbreaking necessarily means jail time. The above is simplistic responses .. showing no inkling of nor addressing the legal issues in play.

We all understand the law was broken - Why should jail time be attached to it - from a legal perspective .. what might the defense argue.. what is Snowden arguing .. ?

Do tell -as in order to show that your claim is true - you must refute the arguments on the other side ..

 

Please tell me something I don't know.

Snowden was very clear--he considered the chain of command, and actually did make some efforts to make it work, but realized the futility of it. He used Thomas Drake, also of NSA, as an example of how the chain of command failed.

The record is clear that working within the chain does nothing but allow the agency to cover its tracks and crimes.

Snowden did the right thing--expose the crimes of government. That so many ordinary citizens condemn him for having exposed those crimes simply illustrates how utterly indoctrinated the masses are, 100 years after Edward Bernays and Woodrow Wilson got the ball rolling.

 

Why Trump should have pardoned him along with Assange.

 

What the hell are you talking about? This thread is about Snowden!

Man, you're all over the place. Focus!

???

"What is Snowden arguing"? They can argue "clemency", for all I know. What does that have to do with my statement?

I can only explain your post by assuming that you are having a different debate with somebody else, and you got completely confused.

My statement was "He's a hero who deserves to go to prison." And, despite the fact that you didn't even read it, that's what was being discussed when you jumped into the debate. Did you have anything to comment about that? Yes? No?

And then you claimed that breaking the law doesn't necessarily mean you deserve to go to prison. Of course, if you're caught speeding, you broke the law but you don't deserve to go to prison. They do when the crime is grave enough to warrant prison time. I don't know what exact laws Snowden broke, but I'm pretty sure this qualifies. I think what he did was a great service to the public. But, still... he broke the law.

If you know somebody is a child molester, and you shoot and kill them... that would also be "a great service to the public".... but you still need to go to prison.

 

Snowden not Trump - obviously - Pathetic you would go on about that .. so desperate for material .. next level up from typo -Nazi style - with some Ad Hom fallacy. mixed in ... So lame.

Your not getting this idea - of what possible defense Snowden might have - and/or are not trying real hard - likening this to a speeding ticket.

and - in some cases you will not go to prison if you shot the child molester. ... Two things da Prosecution needs to prove to secure conviction.

1) Mens Rea - 2) Actus Rea 2) must have done the crime (as per Rule of Law principle - no one punished for crime of another - not even Trump )

1) the person must have "intended it" - in the case of the Child Molester - "IF" it was the killer's Child .. The Killer can often commit the Crime ... but do no time .. or the sentence greatly mitigated ... on the basis of Temporary insanity.

In the case of Snowden he both did the crime - and he intended it ... so no defense so far.

Perhaps there is another defense ? - such as that the severity of the Crime being exposed , justifying the law breaking behavior.

So the question over to you is - You claim that Snowden deserves Jail ..

Do you - or do you not - think Snowden's crime was justified - given the severity of the crime he exposed ?

 

Could you be more specific; I don't want to put effort into answering a guess, that turns out to be wrong.