The New Climate Reality

It was worse then, better now.
Europe’s Post-2000 (Mini) Droughts Far Less Severe, Prolonged Than Little Ice Age Megadroughts
By Kenneth Richard on 8. November 2021

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A new study affirms Europe’s worst one-year droughts of the 21st century (2003, 2015, and 201 have been far less severe than the 50+ consecutive years of “megadroughts” linked to the solar-minima-induced coldest decades of the 15th to 19th centuries.
There is a clear link between cooler temperatures and aridity documented in the scientific literature (Baek et al., 2019). Decades and centuries with warmer sea surface temperatures (SSTs) are associated with less drought. The cooler SSTs occurring during the 1400s to 1800s (Little Ice Age) are linked to more aridity, crop failures, and multi-decade megadroughts.

Scientists (Ionita et al., 2021) have determined the two worse European megadroughts of the last 6 centuries occurred during periods with low solar activity and much colder temperatures: the Spörer Minimum (~AD 1400-1480) and Dalton Minimum (~AD 1770-1840). . . .

 

The forecast is for a strong hype front to move in.
The Facts: SkyNews Exploits Normal Weather Events To Fan False Climate Fear
ALARMIST MESSENGERS/CLAIMS NOVEMBER 19, 2021

 

The level of hype is rising even if water levels are not.
No, Climate Change Isn’t Behind Great Salt Lake Decline
ALARMIST MESSENGERS/CLAIMS NOVEMBER 25, 2021

A Google News search of the term “climate change” today reveals a number of media outlets hyping the claim that climate change is causing a historic drop in Utah’s Great Salt Lake, possibly sounding a death knell for the iconic water body. This is false. Data show the Great Salt Lake has experienced lower levels in the past, and recovered. The best evidence is, were it not for increased water withdrawals from the rivers feeding the Great Salt Lake for the regions’ growing population, water levels would currently be at or above historically normal levels.

A story, titled “Climate change has helped turn Utah’s Great Salt Lake into ‘a puddle of its former self’,’” published by Yahoo News senior editor David Knowles is typical of the corporate media’s less than factual coverage of the Great Salt Lake’s current water woes. Here is an excerpt:

Climate change is taking a toll on Utah’s Great Salt Lake, rendering it “a puddle of its former self,” according to a new report published in the Salt Lake Tribune,” writes Yahoo News. “Despite still being depicted on most maps in its former glory, the lake has shrunk dramatically and now holds only half as much as its historical average, the paper reported. Utah is one of several Western states experiencing extreme drought conditions that researchers have linked to climate change, and in July the lake’s water level hit a new low.

Almost every claim made in the preceding paragraph is false. . . .

 

No. They both make solid points.

Arctic Sea Freezes Early, Trapping 18 Ships in Ice Near Russia.

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If you read back through you will see I have already mentioned several times the the sun is on a low cycle.
That despite this Earth is still warming overall. The Solar minimum might just buy us a precious few years to solve our catastrophe.
More likely the Solar minimum combined with Co2 AGW will cause more climate change. .

 

No it's not. We aren't even in warm earth conditions, we are in an interglacial, a small respite called the Holocene, between glacial advances. 20,000 years ago there was a mile of ice on top of Chicago, 20,000 years from now there could be a mile of ice on top of Chicago, again, but, if we can get up to 750 ppm of CO^2 we might be able to hold of the next glacial advance for 50,000 years or more.

We aren't even in the warmest portion of the Holocene. The Holocene optimum was 8,000 years ago and we have been in a long term cooling trend since.

Ridiculous fear mongering. Anyone that is middle aged has probably already survived 3 predicted apocalypses. It seems a weird thing the way humans love these end of the world fables. Put away your fears and stick to empirical science.

Good! As we keep bringing up those CO^2 levels we should be able cut back on the fertilizers that are causing that massive dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico. You do know that Big Fertilizer is behind this climate doomsday crap, these nicely rising CO^2 levels will put their fat pampered asses right out of business.

 

Yes, you need to go back 20,000 years to an ice age to make your point. I will even agree that were we in an ice age I would not be concerned about AGW, but we are not.
As for pushing back the next ice age, lets worry about that in 1,500 years. I'll drop you a memo nearer the time.

 

We are currently in an Ice Age.......

 

In terms of these expanses of time, a blink of an eye. 20,000 years is only one/twenty seven thousandth of the time to the Cambrian Explosion.

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1/27,000th gives you no sense of the overall picture. If you are 75 years old, 1/27,000th would be the rough equivalent of a single day of your life. And assessing a single day out of 75 years gives you nearly no overall sense of the entire 75 years.

That's an indisputable fact whether you agree with it or not.

We most certainly are in the Quaternary Ice Age and have been for 2.58 million years, with no signs of abating, given the current continental configuration of the tectonic plates and the continuing uplift of the Himalayas that have profound cooling effects.

Interglacial warming is not a worry. Carrying earth's current population level through the next glacial advance is impossible with current knowledge.

At it's essence this is a discussion of how we best serve ourselves and the biosphere on which we depend through the deployment of resources. The myth of AGW putting us in danger of a life ending event is misdirecting precious resources at a massive level. Carbon sequestration, that separates it from earth's natural processes that convert carbon to life may be the most suicidal act humans have ever engaged in.

Our environmental policies should be focused on cleaning up hazardous waste from our nuclear research, mining, agriculture and industrial growth. We need to get the mercury out of our water and fish stocks. We need to remove the plastic from our oceans. We should be putting on notice dirty filthy producers like China to reduce their mass environmental harm or see tariffs on their goods continue to climb until they either do or they no longer sell goods on US markets, and through treaties we should encourage the rest of the world to do the same and isolate these filthy pigs. We have a duty to remove the thousands of barrels of Agent Orange we left rotting in Vietnam.

Once you are actually aware of where we are in the overall climate cycle you will be much more useful in this discussion of prudent deployment of shared resources.

 

No we're not.

 

This is elementary knowledge as pointed out here from Wikipedia LINK:

We are currently in the Interglacial period.

I learned this way back in the 1970's as a Teenager.

This is 101 stuffs, how could YOU not know this?

 

In planetary terms yes, in human terms its not. We've only been civilised at most for 5,000 years.
The earths existence is the blink of an eye in universal terms, makes no difference to what's happening now.
Its just smoke and mirrors distraction.

No it isn't.
The next ice age is estimated to start in 1,500 years time. It takes more than a solar maunder to cause an ice age.

AGW is not a myth, you stand alone. Human carbon sequestration is on such a insignificant level that earth wont even scratch the itch.

 

Yes "Between" glacial periods, we are always between glacial periods when were not in a glacial period. We know exactly what causes them and when they are due to start and finish.

 

". . . The entire Quaternary Period, starting 2.58 Ma, is referred to as an ice age because at least one permanent large ice sheet—the Antarctic ice sheet—has existed continuously. There is uncertainty over how much of Greenland was covered by ice during each interglacial. . . . "
Quaternary glaciation - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Quaternary_glaciation

 

The data doesn't actually support the model outcomes. Sorry. Nothing changes that. And frankly even using the model outputs, the temps aren't actually rising. When you realize that CO2 outcomes are likely logarithmic, perhaps you'll get why your comment is off base.

 

Really? So science can predict say a basalt flood event that lasted a couple hundred thousand years... who knew...

 

Now you are just ignoring the evidence I gave you.

"The Quaternary glaciation, also known as the Pleistocene glaciation, is an alternating series of glacial and interglacial periods during the Quaternary period that began 2.58 Ma (million years ago) and is ongoing.[1][2][3] Although geologists describe the entire time period up to the present as an "ice age", in popular culture the term "ice age" is usually associated with just the most recent glacial period during the Pleistocene or the Pleistocene epoch in general.[4] Since planet Earth still has ice sheets, geologists consider the Quaternary glaciation to be ongoing, with the Earth now experiencing an interglacial period."

red my bolding

The planet is for the last 2.58 million years in the Quaternary glaciation phase with alternating Glacial and Interglacial periods in it.

Currently Earth is in the INTERGALCIAL period, from Wikipedia again:

You need to read to catch up as you are only around 150 years out of date.

 

When did a basalt flood last cause an ice age?

Interglacial period. Between glacial periods. An ice age is defined by more than their being glaciers.

You really love making these bold nonsense statements don't you.

What do you base that supposition on?

 

I'm just going to go with, you're not into science, or history, and any citation of either isn't something you'd be interested in. Do you even know what a basalt flood is?

 

Is that instead of answering.

 

You are confused about terminology; both glacial and interglacial periods are part of the Quaternary ice age.

 

So what? You are the one asserting a fast approaching planetary disaster when there is no empirical evidence to support your wild doomsday theory.

Fake News. "The Late Cenozoic Ice Age,[5][6] or Antarctic Glaciation[7][8] began 33.9 million years ago at the Eocene-Oligocene Boundary and is ongoing."

We are in an interglacial within an ice age. The current Holocene interglacial began at the end of the Pleistocene, about 11,700 years ago.

The previous interglacial, the Eemian began about 130,000 years ago at the end of the Penultimate Glacial Period and ended about 115,000 years ago at the beginning of the Last Glacial Period.[3] That is, it lasted 15,000 years with an intervening 100,000 years of glacial advance that ended when the Holocene began with the beginning of glacial retreat 11,700 years ago.

I notice you have no cite for your claim that our current interglacial will last another 1,500 years, because that's a rather bold claim. I can find no support for it. The last interglacial lasted 15,000 years and the current one is less than 12,000 years old, which would imply that we have another 3,300 years to go, but, you are claiming that something that has never occurred, in 4.5 billion years is going to occur first, a doomsday runaway heating event, which is pretty interesting because you are also claiming that we will be in a glacial advance in 1500 years.

So, in 1500 years you are claiming that we will exit our ice age, return to warm earth conditions, which earth has not seen in nearly 34 million years...

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Which would be in the top half of the graph, and then crash to the bottom, all in 1500 years, which is less time on this graph than the width of a pencil tip. That's total horse ****. You have no empirical evidence to support such a series of wild claims.

Well, "one significant trigger in initiating ice ages is the changing positions of Earth’s ever-moving continents, which affect ocean and atmospheric circulation patterns. When plate-tectonic movement causes continents to be arranged such that warm water flow from the equator to the poles is blocked or reduced, ice sheets may arise and set another ice age in motion. Today’s ice age most likely began when the land bridge between North and South America (Isthmus of Panama) formed and ended the exchange of tropical water between the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans, significantly altering ocean currents."

https://geology.utah.gov/map-pub/su.../ice-ages-what-are-they-and-what-causes-them/

We are in locked in a cold earth continental configuration caused by:

• The joining of the America's creating a solid vertical wall from north of Alaska to nearly the South Pole
• A land mass over the South pole that allows ice to pack for miles reflecting sun energy back into space
• The separation of the previously large land mass made up of the land mass now over the South Pole, India, and Australia that allows southern polar waters to swirl in relative isolation rather than warm equatorial water washing over the poles resulting in a more uniform warmer earth temperature.
• India turned north ramming Asia and continues to push up the Himalayas, which have a profound cooling effect.

https://news.wisc.edu/climate-shift-linked-to-rise-of-himalayas-tibetan-plateau/

The Doomsday scenario is. It's total crap.

So what? The first person to suggest that ice once covered the earth, stood alone. It wasn't until well after the civil war that the evidence for ice ages was finally accepted. The overwhelming evidence for plate tectonics wasn't accepted until the late 1960's. Facts aren't established by votes, they are established by evidence that forms the basis of accurate predictions.

Every carbon molecule separated from earth's natural processes is a molecule that cannot be converted to life when conditions allow. Every single living cell is carbon based, and that carbon was converted to living matter from a molecule CO^2.

During warm earth conditions, life explodes, and I mean massively, far in excess of interglacial conditions. The mass of dinosaurs did not have farms, they just wandered around and ate of the natural abundance. We get by with masses of fertilizers and other things to juice the natural cycles that require no such stimulation in presences of adequate; water, CO^2, warmth, top soil, and solar energy. Carbon is how earth stores life through cold earth conditions and then reforms it into living things when warmth returns. I'm completely against carbon sequestration.

Why are you for chasing these fantasies rather than cleaning up hazardous waste sites, ocean pollution, leaking nuclear waste, ag and industrial chemicals fouling oceans soil and groundwater, our cleaning up all the agent orange we left in Vietnam. Thousands of rotting barrels of the stuff are still stashed all over Vietnam, leaking into soil and groundwater. How about isolating these dirty filthy industrial pigs like China, and giving them a choice of either cleaning up after themselves are finding that they have progressively less access to US markets?

Nobody in the "progressive" movement wants to do what really matters, they all want to ooh and ahh over the latests climate carnival that the privileged attend in massive flocks of private jets.

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These fools only fool fools.

 

The bedrock of Empirical Science is accurate prediction.

Same BS, Same BS'r, Different Decade:

● Shot: Artists must confront the climate crisis – we must write as if these are the last days.

—Headline, the Grauniad, November 12th.

● Chaser: President ‘has four years to save Earth.’

—Headline, the Grauniad, January 17th, 2009.

 

BRAVO!

One of the best comments I have read all year.

 

In real terms we see the difference.