Rachel Maddow brings an important message about an alarming world trend...

....about right wing fascism's spread throughout the world.

"Because no longer respecting election results isn't just about messing with elections themselves, it's about a different kind of governance, a different kind of power; if they do not want your vote to determine who is in power, that means they don't want to have to use power to try to meet your needs." --Rachel Maddow

She describes Trumpism and their election denying, which Biden correctly characterized as 'semi-fascism'. Now some are accusing Biden of being divisive, but I think something as serious as what is happening must be called out, we must call a spade a spade, if it is, indeed, a spade, and it most certainly is.

Heck, Just the the other day, neofascist Giorgia Meloni, who won the vote in Italy, she spoke at CPAC.

I think it's clear where Trumpism is heading.

https://apnews.com/article/elections-rome-italy-6aa9fcb003071c307190a4053f199d98

 

The conclusion in your linked article, is at odds with your own, and Rachel Maddow's observations, at least, regarding Italy.

<Snip>
If history is any guide, one constant in recent political elections is that Italians vote for change, with a desire for something new seemingly overtaking traditional political ideology in big pendulum shifts, said Nathalie Tocci, director of the Rome-based Institute of International Affairs.

Tocci said the Brothers of Italy’s popularity in 2022 was evidence of this “violent” swing that is more about Italian dissatisfaction than any surge in neo-fascist or far-right sentiment.

“I would say the main reason why a big chunk of that -- let’s say 25-30% -- will vote for this party is simply because it’s the new kid on the block,” she said.
<End>

 

Imo, anyone that watches a whole show of Maddow, Hanity et al, any of the political opinion shows really, have way too much time on thier hands and are highly partisan. Small clips might be ok if only to laugh a bit...but even broken clocks can be right twice a day. Though for Maddow...I've yet to see it.

 

Allow me to dismantle your 'logic'.

No one, ever, deliberately votes for fascism insofar as what and how it really is.. It ALWAYS arrives cloaked in deceptive clothing, something better than what it really is.

Moreover, it's not really 'new'.

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/explainer-party-neo-fascist-roots-won-big-italy-90517767

Meloni co-founded the party in 2012, naming it after the first words of the Italian national anthem. “A new party for an old tradition,” Meloni wrote.

The above quote taken from the same pages your quotes are taken from, you just didn't notice.

Even Trumpsters do not grasp the fascistic nature of their movement nor do they understand that what drives them is the same thing that has driven other historical changes that were fascism (or other forms of totalitarianism) disguised as something other than what it really was. Most such movements are voted into office by low information types, who are easily manipulated with slogans, thought-terminating clichés, propaganda, etc., and there are a lot of those folks out there, they lie dormant until a demagogue comes a long, and galvanizes them. Trump is a perfect example.

.

 

Maddow is brilliant. She'll start off on some backwater point, and gradually show how it ties in with a current event and we gradually see something that was previously buried or invisible -- she makes the invisible visible. She's notorious for doing this, and thus she's extremely illuminating. She stands out from all the other pundits, not to mention she's a PHD Rhodes Scholar.

If you do not understand that about her, you haven't watched her enough to know. There is no way in holy hell you can compare her, or associate her, with Hannity. Hannity is a college drop out and a moron.

 

@Patricio Da Silva

a good indicator may be next weeks brazilian electrinos. lula should win, but bolsonaro (representing the army and corporate money) will probably not allow that.

or perhaps this is just the world's largest banana republic doing what banana republics do?

 

I was surprised that nobody had brought up the Italian election results yet. These elections show us that RW populism is on the march not only in US, but also in Europe. One just has to look at Orban in Hungary, the narrow defeat of LePen in France, and now the election of a RW populist in Italy. Although not as extreme, but the UK apparently didn't have enough of RW populist Johnson, they voted in another one with Truss.

While I wouldn't say they are all flat out fascists, the general reason for their appeal is the same as that of Mussolini and Hitler. They tap into the general sentiment of dissatisfaction and tell people that it is not really their fault that they are not doing well economically, but it is really the fault of the Jews, communists, socialists, people of color, foreigners, immigrants, gay people, transgenders... Insert any other boogeyman that is from a group that is not the "norm". The idea is that ridding society from those people who are not the "norm" will make everyone's lives better.

This kind of approach works because it feeds into the lowest brainstem kind of emotions that are embedded in all of us, with a tribal based us vs. them worldview. It also works because a lot of people hate change, and all they want is to preserve the "good old days", when everything was better and those damn foreigners didn't compete for their jobs.

So, in my view, the march to worldwide RW populism is just getting started. With a powerful propaganda machine behind them, that knows how to exploit the most basic emotions of their followers, there is easy pickings even among the young.

 

BINGO


The rise of populism, mostly right-leaning, is the most important European political development of the 21st century. It has eaten into support for traditional center-right parties while dealing a knock-out blow to the center-left. The result is the end of the center-left/center-right duopoly that has dominated European politics since the end of World War II. Party systems throughout Europe have fragmented, and most have shifted toward the right. And the rise of populism has opened the door to increased Russian influence throughout Europe.


Early on, many analysts believed that the rise of populism reflected mainly the economic distress created by the protracted Great Recession. As it waned, they hoped, so would the populist challenge. But even as Europe’s economic recovery has gathered pace and unemployment has declined, the populist surge has continued. It is now evident that populism draws strength from public opposition to mass immigration, cultural liberalization, and the perceived surrender of national sovereignty to distant and unresponsive international bodies. If economic arguments had determined the outcome of the Brexit vote, Britain would have remained in the EU. If economic growth had been decisive in Poland, which enjoyed the faster growth rate in Europe between 1989 and 2015, the populist Law and Justice Party would never have become the country’s dominant political force.

Immigration raises cultural and security concerns as well as fears of economic displacement, and it weakens the legitimacy of transnational institutions that are seen as preventing sovereign peoples from using national political means to protect themselves against the threatening developments. Left unaddressed, the rise of anti-immigrant, anti-internationalist sentiment, which has shifted the political balance within Europe, could have grave consequences for liberal democracy itself.
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/orde...populism-and-the-collapse-of-the-center-left/


World Report 2017: The Dangerous Rise of Populism

The appeal of the populists has grown with mounting public discontent over the status quo. In the West, many people feel left behind by technological change, the global economy, and growing inequality. Horrific incidents of terrorism generate apprehension and fear. Some are uneasy with societies that have become more ethnically, religiously and racially diverse. There is an increasing sense that governments and the elite ignore public concerns.

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2017/country-chapters/global-4

 

People say the silliest things during election season.

 

Yeah yeah, she's got a couple of degrees. Big whoop. Frankly there are people that spin better on this forum than she does. And as I recall she escaped a lawsuit by claiming everything she says is just opinion, not factual. Much the same thing that your side continually harps on about Tucker Carlson when he was sued. Which at the least puts her on the same level as Tucker. Opinionated BS. She's quite welcome to her opinion. And you're quite welcome to yours. But quite frankly...I like more intelligent people. All she's ever done with her degree's is spout opinion. Never been on a serious news show or outlet. Just opinionated BS. Barry Meier even mentions her in his book Spooked: The Trump Dossier, Black Cube, and the Rise of Private Spies. A book about how reporters can be manipulated by private intelligence services.

 

What's really funny is the left did the same warnings back in 2016, and 2012. Its nothing more than a fear mongering tactic for their base to lap up.

 

Right-Wing Megadonors Are Financing Media Operations to Promote Their Ideologies
https://www.prwatch.org/news/2020/0...ing-media-operations-promote-their-ideologies


Right-Wing Megadonors Are Financing Populism Worldwide
https://www.google.com/books/editio...pulism+Worldwide&pg=PA131&printsec=frontcover

 

A federal judge in San Diego dismissed One America News Network’s defamation lawsuit against Rachel Maddow, MSNBC and Comcast, concluding that Maddow was stating her opinion when she said that the right-leaning channel “really, literally is paid Russian propaganda.”

“Considering the totality of the circumstances – including the general context of the statements, the specific context of the statements, and the statements’ susceptibility of being proven true or false – a reasonable fact finder could only conclude that the statement was one of opinion not fact,” U.S. District Judge Cynthia Bashant wrote in a 17-page ruling.



Fox News won a court case by 'persuasively' arguing that no 'reasonable viewer' takes Tucker Carlson seriously

See the difference

 

Nope. No difference. They both made the arguments that what they say is just opinion. Not factual. No matter how many ways of saying the same thing a person uses. Its the same thing.

 

Sure, the same

Fox News won a court case by 'persuasively' arguing that no 'reasonable viewer' takes Tucker Carlson seriously

 

Italy, with, IMO, the mafia don/robber baron affliction , have an an affinity for "strongman" rhetoric and worship. Didn't Steve Bannon open a "ethno nationalist" school there about 4 years back in an old monastery? Fascist are on the rise and she can throw a cog in the Ukraine/Russia wheel.

 

Your reply, "dismantled" nothing. Nor was any "logic" involved, in my passing along, what your link, factually said. So, all you have done, has been to announce to the thread, that you disagree with the perspective of your own link, and with the conclusion of the director of the Rome-based Institute of International Affairs.
Bravo.

Your OP's thesis was not clearly stated (as is not an uncommon occurrence, with you). However, you called the move toward fascism, a "world trend." In your response, here, you call it something that "ALWAYS," happens unintentionally. I would point out that, in this, it is your own logic which is faulty, and contradictory, but I know from past experience that it would be a waste of time to expect you to recognize, or admit this.

So, moving on, your original suggestion seemed not to be that the world was moving, country by country, toward fascism, through a coincident group of mistakes, by people all around the globe. But is that what you are now saying? So, you contend, it is not a trend of Earth's citizens, consciously choosing authoritarian leaders, but only a "trend," of those with dictatorial dispositions, taking advantage of discontent, and all following the same fascistic playbook, to gain power? If so, I don't know that you are not marking out your own, third theory, diverging not just from your linked article, but from Rachel Maddow's, as well.


All that said, I do not agree that this worldwide trend, is just a series of accidents, as you now seem to be asserting. In other words, I am more inclined in my own opinion, towards what originally, I had taken your OP to be suggesting: that people are choosing more, fascist style leaders (on purpose). Again, going by from what little is offered in the OP, I would guess that this is also the opinion of Rachel Maddow, whom you hold in such high regard (to an unwarranted degree).

No, she is not "brilliant," though I would say, she is bright. The tortuously circuitous route which she often uses, to lead to her point, is better described as palaverous, rambling, windy, or prolix (or, as you like to put it, when referring to me, "verbose bloviation"); your choice of the word "notorious," however, was accurate. But if she is saying that this is a conscious decision by people, to reject democratic results they do not care for, I would agree that there is something to that, even if you, for the moment, do not.

Lastly, I will point out that I never said I agreed with the opinion expressed, in your link. I was merely pointing out that it did differ, from your own opinion. The suggestion was meant to be, that perhaps you might have found a less contradictory "source," for your OP (which you would have realized, if you understood how to apply the logic, of which you speak). I feel that, though there is certainly a degree of just wanting a change, as the quoted director was saying, she overemphasized this, and left out other important aspects, of the trend.

 

You know, she's one very intelligent woman with the ability to contextualize current events and paint a picture. Hannity will outright lie on national TV, Rachel will not and will issue retractions if she does. Pity she's chosen to only do one hour once a week.

 

Prove the bold...I dare you. And good for Italy for finally waking the hell up! She's an inspiration!

 

‘God, homeland, family’, that's her slogan. Stolen from Mussolini. Of course, all fascists will deny that they are fascists. I am not saying she is a fascist, but she is definitely deep in RW nationalist, populist territory. That she appeals to you is no surprise.

 

That makes someone fascist? LOL

 

I grew up with the belief "it couldn't happen here." Because we are deeply rooted in a liberal democratic tradition I thought nothing remotely close to fascism or authoritarian style governance could ever take hold here. What I failed to consider is Americans possess the same human failings and psychological makeup as citizens around the world. That some of us are as suscpetible to the siren song of populism, the tendency to blame others for our fate, to objectify "outsiders" as the cause of our problems, and the desire for a "strong" leader.
The night Trump got elected my naive belief in what you could call American exceptionalism ended.......and I was stunned. Despite Trump's electoral defeat I fear conditions continue to worsen. Especially around how elections are conducted and how results are accepted....or not. Add to that the emboldenment of racist groups like white nationalists, the ascension of extremists like MTG, the overt embrace of authoritarian/facsist leaders like Orban and Meloni, both of whom spoke at CPAC. Something that was unthinkable not so long ago. It's part of a process of normalization which began when Trump broke down barriers of what was previously acceptable. Many of which it was assumed would never be broken because they had always been part of who we are. Or at least who we were.

 

Hardly surprising since her party's roots go back to Mussolini's fascist party of the 1920's. I read an op-ed in the NYT yesterday suggesting there are too many guardrails in place for her to enact the kinds of regressive policies she promotes. Maybe that's true. But the increase in popularity of far right extemism in Europe is daunting nonetheless.

This is worth reading..........https://www.vox.com/2022/9/24/23369572/italy-election-meloni-brothers-of-italy-far-right

 

I like the term used in the article, instead of "conservatives:" nostalgics.

 

Why am I not surprised that a liberal like you thinks God, homeland and family equate to fascism.

Oh that’s right. Because for the past 25 years the democrat platform has been atheism, hate America because it’s racist and single mother households for everyone lol