Climate deniers don't deny climate change any more

LOL. Cant comprehend your own article or you didnt even read it.
""Our results are based on theoretical models and are an important building-block in answering the question of the history of Venus," says study co-author David Ehrenreich, professor in the Department of Astronomy at UNIGE and member of the NCCR PlanetS. "But we will not be able to rule on the matter definitively on our computers. The observations of the three future Venusian space missions will be essential to confirm -- or refute -- our work."

Only thing you wrote was a false statement about modeling.

 

LOLOL! Venus has always had temps of 450 degrees or more

"This means that the temperatures never got low enough for the water in its atmosphere to form raindrops that could fall on its surface. Instead, water remained as a gas in the atmosphere and oceans never formed."

AND because its 28% closer to the sun

From link in your wikipedia article

"It turns out that most of Venus's "extra" surface heat is due to the adiabatic compression caused by the high pressure, the next most is caused by extra solar radiation, and greenhouse effect is a distant third."

AND thats with venus having 960,000 parts per million CO2 compared to earths 400 parts per million.

 

No, there is no consistent upward trend because the trend was downward in the ~1940-70 period.

No, you just proved again that you don't know any science. Some scientific data have such variations, other data are clearly cyclical, and other data really do show consistent trends.

Yes, and you have no knowledge of such statistical analysis, because you have no science education beyond high school, and did not do well in that.

 

No, you've just proved you don't. We've had more than a few degrees of heating since the last Ice Age, and the ice caps haven't melted. So your claim is objectively false. You will find that happening a lot, as long as you presume to dispute with me.

They've been melting and receding at about the same rate for thousands of years.

 

Do you have any actual evidence to support your claim that the temperature of Venus was always above 450 degrees, and how did you measure it?

None of that changes the fact that Venus' temperature is over 450 degrees because of the greenhouse effect from it's atmospheric CO2. And similarly the atmospheric CO2 from human activity has caused increases in global temperatures in my lifetime.

 

None of that changes the fact that the glaciers are receding and the ice caps on Greenland and the Antarctic Peninsula are melting and causing rises in sea levels.
And that's your issue if you don't believe the scientific data collected by professional scientists.
And the only one you're trying to fool with your continual bluff and guff is just yourself.

 

And the only one you're trying to fool with your continual bluff and guff and lack of knowledge of science and scientific methodology from your primary school classes over 50 years ago, is just yourself.

 

LOLOL. It DIRECTLY contradicts it.

 

Only in your dreams, only in your dreams!!!! If Venus didn't have an atmosphere of CO2 then the surface temperatures would have a similar range to Mercury's.

And I rely on the evidence and conclusions of professional scientists, and not someone who knows nothing about science.
And the only one you're trying to fool is just yourself.

 

IOW there was a consistent upward trend in global temperature during my lifetime

 

Which is why the paleoclimate record shows a very very strong correlation between atmospheric CO2 and global warming from the glass house effect. And why the recent increases in global temperatures are clearly caused by increases in atmospheric CO2 from human activity and not by green fairies as hypothesized by Denial River etal. QED

https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/sites/default/files/2021-11/8 - Temperature Change and Carbon Dioxide Change - FINAL OCT 2021.pdf#:~:text=One of the most remarkable aspects of the,carbon dioxide concentration goes up, temperature goes up.

 

Except that CO2 increase lags temperature increase, it does not lead.

". . . one generally sees in the ice cores that CO2 lags the temperature by typically a few hundred years, not vice versa!"

Climate debate at the Cambridge Union - a 10 minute summary of the main problems with the standard alarmist polemic

 

That's just normal experimental deviation and does not change the fact that there is a very strong correlation between atmospheric CO2 and global temperatures in the paleoclimate record.
https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/sites/default/files/2021-11/8 - Temperature Change and Carbon Dioxide Change - FINAL OCT 2021.pdf#:~:text=One of the most remarkable aspects of the,carbon dioxide concentration goes up, temperature goes up.
This very strong correlation is also seen in the more recent data where increases in global temperatures are strongly correlated with the increases in atmospheric CO2 from human activity. And that the recent increase in global temperatures is obviously caused by the green house effect of the increased atmospheric CO2, and as concluded by all credible climatologists. And I have no reason whatsoever to believe otherwise either.

 

So what caused the increase in global temperature if you hypothesize that the recent increases in global temperatures caused the increases in atmospheric CO2 within my lifetime? And what is the scientific evidence to support your hypothesis?

 

Venus's atmosphere is hotter than Earth's, but it is also thicker and composed mostly of carbon dioxide rather than nitrogen (the pressure of nitrogen in both atmospheres is close to the same). Being mostly carbon dioxide has little direct effect on the temperature, but being thick has a lot of effect. Venus's atmosphere has 93 times Earth's pressure at the planet's surface, and that high pressure affects the temperature, a lot. That high-pressure atmosphere means that comparing Earth's surface temperature to Venus's surface temperature is an apples-to-oranges comparison when you are talking about how hot the two atmospheres are.

It turns out that most of Venus's "extra" surface heat is due to the adiabatic compression caused by the high pressure, the next most is caused by extra solar radiation, and greenhouse effect is a distant third.
How Hot is Venus?, by Roger Bourke White Jr., copyright May 2006 (whiteworld.com)

Venus is so hot because it is surrounded by a very thick atmosphere which is about 100 times more massive than our atmosphere here on Earth. As sunlight passes through the atmosphere, it heats up the surface of Venus.
Why is Venus so hot? | Cool Cosmos (caltech.edu)

You are beginning to bore me with your irrelevant Venus tangent you use to avoid addressing my actual arguments that you have no relevant response.

 

Yep. Temperature causes CO2 to be released from the oceans. Causes permafrost to melt releasing CO2. The global warmers have trouble with confusing correlation with causation. And then you have increased CO2 greening the earth and increasing cloud cover, both tending to decrease temperatures.

 

There is a consistent upward trend in global temperature when coming out of every ice age in the past.

 

The natural cycle of reoccurring ice ages that has continued for 100s of 1000s of years has nothing to do with "green fairies"

 

<sigh> It changes the narrative because it proves that to the very modest extent that it might be happening, CO2 has little to do with it.

And that's your issue if you don't believe the scientific data collected by professional scientists.

And the only one you're trying to fool with your continual bluff and guff is just yourself.

 

As they say in Japan, "It's mirror time!"

 

No, YOUR OWN GRAPH shows temperature fell from the early 1940s to the late 1970s while CO2 was rising rapidly, as I have informed you multiple times, and you just blankly refuse to know.

 

Here is a graph from WoodForTrees if anyone is interested in looking at the data in more detail. Notice the strong correlation between CO2 and temperature, but notice also that CO2 is lagging temperature. Why are temperature changes causing CO2 changes? A likely explanation is that the temperatures of the oceans are regulating the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere. The solubility of CO2 is temperature-dependent meaning that the amount in the atmosphere is governed by ocean temperatures. As they cool, CO2 is absorbed into the oceans. As they warm, more CO2 is outgassed from the oceans.

 

Yes there is: CO2 follows temperature.

 

Already explained, but repeated as a courtesy.

If we count the number of sunspots in each solar cycle over the last 300 years and divide by the length of each cycle, we can see how much solar activity has deviated from the average. Since the Maunder Minimum, during the Little Ice Age, solar activity has been increasing and was well above average between 1933 and 1996, a period of six cycles of increased solar activity that formed the 20th century solar maximum.



Although we cannot know how much of the 20th century warming is due to this modern solar maximum, there is no denying that it is a significant part, because as we have seen, the Sun has been the cause of much of the major climate change over the past 11,000 years.

How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past
Posted on April 18, 2024 by curryja


by Javier Vinós

Part I of a three part series.

Continue reading →

 

IOW the increased atmospheric CO2 from human activity is causing the recent increases in global warming and climate change from the "glass-house effect" during my lifetime.