Gay Teen Suicide: A Range of Causes

OK so as I said in another thread, teen suicide across the board is higher in more socially conservative areas.

We have learned from your inference of a "link" between childhood molestation and teen suicide so doesn't it follow that if there are more suicides in socially conservative areas that more social conservatives are child molesters?

So let's start investigating that scenario as well?

 

That could mean a lot of things. For one thing, child molesters in socially conservative areas are less likely to be spotted until the damage was done. Consider my example from post #43:

Celebrated business owner, socially conservative....damage goes undetected for longer....

Also, just because certain social environments support pedophilia doesn't mean it's a good thing. Prison supports rape. Bay Area supports Harvey Milk. The Deep South still supports racism against blacks.

You have to look at the bigger picture to get the full view. And again, I'm at a loss as to why anyone here would shy away from exploring ALL, [not just cherry picked] causes of gay teen suicide. That psychiatrists have found deep depression [that is the harbinger of suicide] in gay men/teens as having roots in child molestation is telling, very telling. Why ignore it? It's like the Agenda has a board-certified "cause of gay teen suicide" and they by god will not waver from it. And why? Because it skirts around the molestation issue...a thing the Agenda seems very uneasy about discussing.. It shamelessly wipes aside any competing real data in order to better milk the sympathy of PC voters and forward that agenda right into the very place where it all started: with young schoolaged children. Odd, isn't it?

 

Yes it could and I think we have a duty to speculate as much as possible and examine each and every single one of those speculations in minute detail.

Remember the survey said that all teens not just gay ones are at higher risk in these areas.

Also bear in mind that social conservatives are not just confined to socially conservative areas they have infiltrated across all regions and have powerful influence in government.

It seems that social conservatives and social conservatism places vulnerable teens at an alarming risk wherever they are.

In order to protect our precious teens, I think we should conduct an investigation into any person showing socially conservative tendencies. We should examine their affiliations and see which websites they visit etc.

Those that have nothing to hide need not fear the shining beacon of truth. We must investigate all possible scenarios, leave no stone unturned, climb every mountain, ford every stream, follow every rainbow, 'til we find our dream.

What kind of person would want to stand in the way of such honest scientific pursuit?

Who would indulge in that kind of intellectual fascism?

Really!! Really!!

 

Agreed!

We should consider the social environment as causal to gay teen suicide. And we should also consider a history of being molested as causal to gay teen suicide.

At last, we are on the same page!

 

No not just gay teen suicide, ALL teen suicide.

As we know you regularly post unfiltered data from ultra socially conservative websites such as the Traditional Values Coalition. This means that you are linked to social conservatism and as you never critique their statistics it's probably fair to say that you are, in some respects, socially conservative.

Now using my study and your methodology we can surmise that as you are a social conservative and because they have been associated with higher rates of teen suicide which has been linked to an "alarming" rate of child molestation you fall into the "risk pool' of those more likely to be involved.

Wow! just Wow!

 

Ah but this thread is about GAY TEEN suicide. Feel free to start a thread somewhere else about teen suicide in general.

Those studies were cited and are traceable. It doesn't matter who compiled them. Are you saying that if somebody references scientific data, that depending on that person's political slant, the data may then be rendered "non-credible"?

And I reiterate. I'm glad you see a wide spectrum of possible causal agents to gay teen suicide. So glad we can include the findings of the psychiatric specialists as well as other agents. For a minute there I thought the one-size-fits-all gay teen suicide scenario was going to limit your ability to consider other causes.

 

You mean you don't care about all the straight kids committing suicide, even those who might have been influenced by social conservatives who, as we know, have been linked, alarmingly, to higher rates of child molestation?

Interesting that you should care more about gay kids than straight kids.

Every day I get a little more surprised at the world.

 

Did you just make that up or could you actually cite to some source for us?

 

Or, how about we go for the more parsimonious explanation; social conservative areas are known to be less tolerant towards homosexuals, creating stigma and psychological trauma.

People that cite studies about molestation and the like are not being scientific and are in fact part of the problem.

 

Well, I took a bit of data from here, a smidge of vaguely related statistics from there and a soupcon of oft quoted mis-truths from a, provably biased, someplace else and cobbled it all together with some "studies" whose purpose I'd completely failed to understand and Hey Presto! I arrived at a conclusion that sounds persuasive and is, conveniently, both difficult and time consuming to refute.

It's not the way I usually like to operate but it obviously works and I figured: if everyone else is doing it, then why shouldn't I give it a go?

Are my findings 100% accurate?

Well that doesn't matter so much. What matters is that I repeat my findings often enough so that some suckers (sorry, people) actually start to believe it and some people will believe it because they want to believe it and I'm good with that.

Heck, I've even started to believe it myself which is great because commitment really helps when you're trying to set an agenda.

Are social conservatives linked to alarmingly high rates of child molestation?

Well, the jury's out on that one. Looking at the studies, it's hard to say yes or no conclusively.

Some people like to say that there's no smoke without fire.

In the meantime, while we can't be 100% sure either way, we need to be vigilant and keep our precious teens from the "alarming" potential to be in "harms way".

The safest path is not to allow them to be influenced in any way by social conservatives. Maybe we should start home-schooling them just to be sure.

I mean, what kind of nasty, immoral and perverted person would disagree with just avoiding taking that risk with our children's futures? Really!!!!!

Of course we could rely on the carefully peer reviewed research of actual professional bodies like the:

APA
AMA
AAP
BMA

But how can we attach any credibility to these accredited institutions?

They're just political shills pursuing a PC agenda, so the correct and obvious thing to do is to laugh in the face of their collective professional experience.

I've finally got it!

I'm on message!

 

BS, you made it up out of thin air

 

This thread is about YOUR AGENDA. I thought you knew that, given your profound psychological savvy.

 

How so?

Here's a link to a study showing a higher prevalence of teen suicides where there are more social conservatives:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/18/gay-teen-suicides-and-str_n_850345.html

We know from other sources that teen suicide is often linked to alarmingly high rates of child molestation.

So how can we avoid the obvious conclusion that social conservatives are likely to be linked to higher rates of child molestation.

It's all in the numbers. You just need to look hard enough to see it.

I wouldn't even give them the benefit of the doubt just until we are sure one way or the other.

 

Amazing the mental gymnastics some people go to in order to make sense out of their perception of the world around them.

 

Yes I've often thought that myself, nowhere more than in the OP that got this thread started in the first place.

 

Columbine, how do you go from me suggesting you start a thread about teen suicide in general to "I don't care about all the straight kids committing suicide"?

How much mental gymnastics are needed to go from this:

To this..,.,? [from the OP]

I don't think it's such a huge leap. And neither do the clinical psychiatrists. The only people that seem to think this is "mental gymnastics" are the folks who want people to buy the entire gay agenda, sight unseen.

It's very disturbing to me that agenda folks would attach dismissive comments and labels to very important and significant findings that might lower the numbers of gay teens who successfully commit suicide. We'll keep coming back to that again and again. You folks are saying "maybe it's not what the clinical psychiatrists have found...maybe it's just the hostile environment teens are in?"

I say "fine, maybe it is the environment. Let's investigate that. But let's also investigate the connections of massive depression in gay men and teens as related to history of childhood molestation." And Agenda-advocates say "no! No! No!...that's stupid, childish, mental gymnastics, bigoted, hateful, blah blah blah ". And I'm saying, "why wouldn't you want to discover all the possibilities for gay teens taking their life. Do you really want people to believe that there is only "one approved" causal agent to gay teen suicides?

And so on.. We'll keep revisiting this over and over until it sinks in..

 

Basically it's obvious to anyone with a brain that you're just trying to push a message:

GAY PEOPLE ARE CHILD MOLESTERS!!

All august medical and scientific bodies have stated quite clearly that they are statistically no more likely to be child molesters than anyone else.

You want studies?

They've been done by the APA, AMA, AAP, BMA (AND NUMEROUS OTHERS) but you just didn't like the answers.

Have some gay people been abused as kids? Yes.

Were all gay people abused as kids? No.

Have some straight people been abused as kids? Yes.

Were all straight people abused as kids? No.

Do some gay people suffer from higher rates of depression, alcohol and substance abuse. Yes.

Has this been determined to be ATTRIBUTED to higher rates of childhood molestation? No.

Like I said, you can always approach the study's authors and get them to confirm they were saying what you claim they were saying. I don't think you'll be pleased with their reply.

 

No, I'm trying to push the message that gay depression and suicide are linked to being molested as children. I'm trying to push the message that we may be dealing in large part with a sexually dysfunctional subculture; an epidemic. I think the numbers are running at 40% of all child predators report they themselves were molested as kids. I think those numbers deserve a second look.

No, not all gay people molest little kids. But a significant and alarming number of them do to cause us to take note and look deeper at what's going on. If a subculture consists of 2% of the population but is molesting at 1/3 of all molestations, Houston we have a problem. If mental health specialists are linking massive depression with history of child molestation in numbers they call "epidemic" among gay men...Houston, we have a problem.

Now then, the gay advocate folks are all about ending gay teen suicides. You hear it like a buzzphrase every time they want to advance the Agenda another notch into the classrooms at school. So I'm just saying that if experts are reporting massive depression in gay males linked to childhood molestation in epidemic numbers, then how smart are we to promote the gay culture to kids?

C'mon. This isn't rocket science. The cat's out of the bag. You want to end gay teen suicides and so do I. So it's time to get really really honest about it, all of it and not just the parts that make gaynees look "cool".."hip".."trendy"..."neato!"

 

Firstly, tough subject and you're brave to venture into this area.

Boys abused by older males are powerless to respond and they do not want anyone else to know, under no circumstances. So, in fact, right there, after the first or second time is the most likely time they may consider suicide as they see no way out. Depends on the age of the boy really. If say, 8 or 9, then suicide is unlikely. At 15, it is.

Those that do commit suicide may do so for reasons totally unrelated to sex as there are many pressures on kids, and adults today. Just being known as gay and having suicided does not mean the suicide was gay related. That's just somebody's easy answer.

What "mental health plague" do you speak of? As there is most certainly a hugely increased number of people suffering mental health problems. Read the World Health Organisation site.

Imagine being one of those who survived the Indonesian tidal wave in Aceh. They have nothing left, no family survives and no money or food. DO you suspect depression is descending on many such people? Japan today has the problem.

Not just in Aceh, but in all the places that have suffered massive natural catastrophies. Plenty in the USA. You only get to hear from those who want to be on TV but they don't show those curled up in a ball, just given up, do they? Nope, have to pretend everyone is fine and will rebuiild in the same ridiculous location to be blown away again next year.

If you are in doubt of the plague like proportions then you really don't know much on the topic. 25% of people will suffer depression during their lifetimes and 10 years ago that was 20%. Think of the numbers involved in that change and you begin to understand the size of the problem.

Your comments on "this mental health plague" are extremely ignorant and typical of people who don't know the topic and want to seem like they can analyse a problem that no one the planet has yet.

You have no idea if being gay is genetic or not. The scientists don't so you certainly do not and your comments on that are equally out of line and offensive.

What has your totally ridiculous comments about animals rutting with paper bags mean? Nothing. Human males do the same thing, with anything when they feel like it. And they don't have to be trained at all. Such is the drive of the male.

Meaningless stuff. But humans are not the exception to that scenario. They sell plastic women for Christ's sake, what more proof does anyone need that a male is capable of having sex with anything. Vacuum cleaners are popular too, until a slight error of judgement causes a sharp pain.

Of course young boys are suicide candidates if repeatedly raped by older males. But so are young women aren't they? It's about having no control really, not sex or gender. It's the abuse and inability to deal with it or stop it.

It is portrayed in the media that boys who are abused become abusers themselves. I don't know that's true at all. It seems so unlikely to me as they know how dreadfully terrifying it can be. Some certainly do but I would suggest the media overplays this aspect big time simply because it creates more drama and suits "profiler" type show and movies.

What is known is that young boys and girls who suffer that abuse more often than not develop a life long depression or worse. It's the number 1 cause of such actually. Not just sexual abuse, any abuse at a young age.

I'm not sure now why you've focused on boys and gays as what you say is true of all children. Suicide candidates if they are under similar types of pressure.

But your comments on suicides having some connection with the "plague" as you put it are, frankly, absolute rubbish. Your comments are seedy, ignorant and as criminally guilty as what you accuse the mental health profession of. Ignorance is no excuse for writing what you have on that issue.

You say the media is not concerned about other forms of teen suicide. Absolute rot, again. I've seen no mention of gay teen suicides in Australia for a very long time but I do see regular tv and newspaper reports of teen, and younger, suicides because of bullying.

Yet another issue you have got wrong. But at least you tried and maybe you'll learn something. I would suggest actually that you might benefit by talking to a psychologist yourself to find out the truth of your beliefs as described here.

And I do know this topic, very well. I've had depression for 50 years now and wil not recover but my treatment has it under control, hopefully for the long term. So I do know a lot about mental health. I've written on mental health forums across the globe for the last 11 years now and still do so. So I speak not just from my own experience. I speak from knowing all those others and their problems. And yes, sex is a big problem for many, gay or not it causes mental health problems.

 

Except that experts in the field of human psychology called the interrelated issues of drug use, violence, history of being molested as a child, and deep depression in GAY males an "EPIDEMIC".

Something that is an epidemic is something that is big. It is huge. It is significant. It occurs in such large numbers within the specified population [of gay males] that it draws attention to itself for further inspection; in this case by clinical psychiatrists. It even gained so much attention that it got itself written up in an article in Clinical Psychiatry News.

Now, are you going to call that group of clinical psychiatrists "hateful" also? Do you "hate" data? And if so, what about that data do you hate? You can't just shun reality away. If clinical psychiatrists are coming together to name and specify this interrelated nature of mental ills as an epidemic, you'd better sit up and pay attention.

 

Only according to the TVC and some other bogus posters on the internet.

Using the same methods I can twist statistics to prove that social conservatives are linked to a higher incidence of child molestation.

The people that matter, all of the developed world's accredited social science, medical and mental health monitoring bodies have issued statements indicating that what you're saying is a crock.

 

Amen to that!!

 

your whole one (wo)man show was deprived of one very important factor to get the "credible" label: to give your audience the feeling you actually care.
maybe i'm not smart enough to get your logic but after having read every single post, i get the distinct feeling you are on a witch hunt, gay men being the ppl you're going for.
hopefully you are smart enough to understand that the constant undertone of gay guys being the only cause of gay suicide, drug abuse etc. actually trivialises the problem but for the reasons mentioned above, i don't think you care which makes the reason why you started this thread all the more evil coz it actually IS a serious issue.

make no mistake: whoever is causing depression in gay youngsters (i'm sticking to gay youngsters coz that's what the thread is about) needs to pay the price; please note you are one of them.

so, instead of calling this thread "a range of causes", you should have been honest and should have called it "the cause".

FYI and according to you one teeny weeny detail:
"Another problem related to terminology arises because sexual abuse of male children by adult men2 is often referred to as "homosexual molestation." The adjective "homosexual" (or "heterosexual" when a man abuses a female child) refers to the victim's gender in relation to that of the perpetrator. Unfortunately, people sometimes mistakenly interpret it as referring to the perpetrator's sexual orientation.

To avoid this confusion, it is preferable to refer to men's sexual abuse of boys with the more accurate label of male-male molestation. Similarly, it is preferable to refer to men's abuse of girls as male-female molestation. These labels are more accurate because they describe the sex of the individuals involved but don't implicitly convey unwarranted assumptions about the perpetrator's sexual orientation.


Typologies of Offenders
The distinction between a victim's gender and a perpetrator's sexual orientation is important because many child molesters don't really have an adult sexual orientation. They have never developed the capacity for mature sexual relationships with other adults, either men or women. Instead, their sexual attractions focus on children – boys, girls, or children of both sexes."

 

for anyone who's into the truth:

"the important point is that many child molesters cannot be meaningfully described as homosexuals, heterosexuals, or bisexuals (in the usual sense of those terms) because they are not really capable of a relationship with an adult man or woman. Instead of gender, their sexual attractions are based primarily on age. These individuals – who are often characterized as fixated – are attracted to children, not to men or women."

 

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