Socialism is winning!

Socialsit problems? LOL. But if the problems come from the deregularization, markets totally unregulated.

Construction bubble: Cause: Unregulated market

Finance bubble and crisis: Cause: Unregulated market.

Crisis in Russia: Too much liberalization of public services
Crisis in South Africa: The same
Crisis in Poland: The same
Chile: The same
Argentina: The same
Brasil: The same

Sorry, but socialism isn't the one that caused all this problems.

 

London burning, Greece collapsing thanks to... oh wait, if it all that are consequences of the radical capitalism.

People is demanding more power, a direct democracy and also more socialism. Because is the most just system. So yes, the popularity of the socialism is becoming greater.

 

What has London and Greece done that was an example of radical capitalism? Rock bottom interests rates, sky high tax rates, socialized medicine. Very capitalistic.

 

London riots are over for now, but weren't economically motivated. Those were thugs and punks.

Greece is in trouble because of it's socialized medicine, early retirement benefits.

An attempt at neo-socialism.

 

Its great you posted this. Im from Canada and it did not get to the barrel of a gun. I immigrated to the US in 1998... :Legaly. I saw the path that Canada was taking and knew the damage it would cause. Here in the US we are at the same turning point. There are few places left now where I can work hard and enjoy the fruits of my labor. Maybe New Zealand? Im a proud american that can see the future and Chineze is the language I should teach my son....

 

LOL. Seriously. What do you think that motivated them to riot? xD

You're wrong, utterly wrong. Yes, in England people have more rights than American people, but it doesn't eliminate the fact that all this social rights are being abolished, for that the people protested, radical capitalism. People oppose radical capitalism. People don't want a system where all is privately owned.

 

No, you're wrong. The thugs were economically motivated, only that were that thugs. And the despair provoques that.

Greece is in trouble for the corruption, not for the socialized medicine and early retirement benefits.

 

Makes no odds what the politicians think, if they subsidise an industry that is intervention which benefits the capitalist class.

Obviously the reality is fairly complex, but I am trying to get people to understand that a large chunk of the state intervention benefits the capitalists. The bailouts, subsidies, tariffs, government contracts etc.

Fact is, after Thatcher the finance industry grew hugely in size.

A socialist government elected tomorrow could create as many jobs as it wanted. In Britain, 5 million people are on waiting lists for a council house, with no chance of getting one, and thousands of building workers are on the dole or underemployed. If the government built 2 million council houses unemployment would be reduced. We would also build green energy. If there was plenty of everything we simply cut the working week. Of course people do useless jobs. 35% of the cost of pharmaceuticals is marketing. If we took those companies into public ownership, we would not need sales people. We would not need people selling gas, electricity, telecoms, because these would all be publicly owned. In America, admin in healthcare is 6 times the cost it is in Britain. This is because it is private, with people selling it, checking claims and so on. In Britain you just walk into a hospital. We would not have people making a living as commodity speculators or loan sharks. We would not employ mathematicians to transform rubbish into AAA rated bets. The economy would not be a casino.

I think it's the other way round. Capitalism does not feed hungry people, it does the opposite. When people are hungry, like in Somalia, the food price goes UP! Socialism would feed them because profit is not an issue. Capitalism is not integrated. It would take socialism to integrate the economy.

We only just invented computers and the internet, give us a chance.

rubbish. Even Stalinism managed to transform Russia into a modern country with the fasted growth in the world. And socialism requires massive amounts of democracy to work properly.

We would have a price system to start with. But we manage to run the NHS, at less than half the cost of your system. We ran the trains, the gas, the electricity, water, steel, aviation, coal. And that was within a capitalist economy. Marx did not say socialism was inevitable and he did argue in favour of it. "The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it. "

read this
It's not long, I dont have time to paraphrase it at the minute. For one thing, we wouldnt be constrained by copyright, patents etc. Secondly, we would be concentrating research on usefulness, not what the wealthy might fancy next, third the banks wouldnt dictate investment.

maybe you should read it then. why are you saying I should read it if you dont agree with it?

 

Socialism didn't work in the past, it doesn't work now, and it won't work in the future.
Socialism has killed millions of people (Stalin era USSR, Great leap forward China, Prison camp DPRK, and Pol Pot Cambodia were/are socialist, not communist) and countries that are socialist are loosening their grip (China and Cuba are two examples)

 

I asked you for an example of radical capitalism. What makes these countries capitalistic? Telling me I'm wrong doesn't make it so. Do the leg work and back up your anecdotal claims.

 

Ok, let's see:

- Privatization of the communications
- Liberal market of construction and others, mainly financial, what are very close to free market, or free market, no regulation exist

There are some rights like public healthcare and all this, but it doesn't make England a socialist country. The welfare system is created by the capitalists to give mose charity to the people and people don't revolt against the system.

But this today government is eliminating may social services, and this is what provoked the unrest of the people.

 

LOL

Stalin, China never has been socialist. They created capitalistic states, with a strange form.

Pol Pot never has been socialist, he killed all communists and anarchists in Cambodia and he arrived to power with the help of USA.

Cuba is changing the state capitalism to socialism, it is socializing, creating cooperatives.

Socialism is the means of production in hands of the workers.

 

I've seen some denial and crazy on this thread, but this tops it all!

- Bail outs are because of the failure of capitalism, what does socialism has to do with the failure of the markets?

- London is/was burning because of an excessive form of greed, installed in the minds of people because of capitalism. (Visit the Western Europe section for a more thorough discussion)

- Greece is collapsing because of too much capitalism! Only have a look at the USSR when the Great Depression broke out.

 

Nice soundbite, but so wrong indeed.

Socialism hasn't killed anyone -- crazy fanatics did.

I wonder how many people Capitalism kas killed? Billions?

Only think about the total elimination of Native Americans in both the Americas and then replacing them by imported people that were literally robbed away from an other continent known as Africa.

 

This doesn't make London capitalist. Not radical capitalist remotely.

London has been very centrist for then most of 2 decades with a slight left lean. From it's ban on fire arms, to it's public health care system to expanding welfare (which was not supported by any Conservative MEP that I know) makes London seem less like a radical capitalist state like you claim.

 

English Riots: Society Broken By Capitalistic Greed

Join the discussion via link.

 

I'd rather not.

 

Socialism is winning because the country with the most, America, is being bankrupted. Globalism is global socialism. Just because someone is getting rich doesn't mean capitalism is in place. Socialism is winning because a good chunk of Americans, who fight daily against it on a national level, have been tricked into supporting it on a global level. More and more are catching on, but without revolt it is too little, too late. I have no doubt those at the top of America think they will be able to own the upcoming "world government" as they do American government, but "democracy" dictates capitalism in all forms is about to be eradicated. "Social democracy", once all nations of the world are merely states of the globe, will turn to socialism overnight. Imagine fighting socialism on a state level and then supporting it on a federal level, it makes the state level a moot point, right? The same can be said for national level verses global level. Wake up America. I really don't want to work for 12 globeros a day, while a gallon of gas costs 30 globeros, do you?

 

LOL

You have a very strange concept of socialism, no? Globalism is capitalism. Internationalism that has been abolished is socialism.

 

It's a link to a thread on PoliticalForum.com -- so I don't see the problems.

The essay as posted in the thread is quite spectacular indeed.

 

The old form of socialism was nationalist. But ideologies are only defined by the people who currently control the movement. Current socialists are market socialists. I am not talking you. You are not in a position to dictate what socialism is. Market socialists believe in letting the market dictate what is needed. The "market" is not a force to be tapped into. It is the businesses who are the market. Businesses are made up of people. So capitalism is only defined by the people who represent it. The great handshake. Crony capitalists using the state apparatus they control, through their counterparts, market socialists, to have all elite working as one to rule the world, are now merely just globalists. That is where we are at. There is no right or left. There is merely top and bottom. Globalists or nationalists. Market socialists, as to those at the top, are academic elites who have dinner with business owners, come from inherited wealth, and have as much a clue as what workers need as a bird knows what fish need. We have all been sold out. Ground floor capitalists and ground floor collectivists. You are fighting for an ideology that has abandoned you.

 

In the line of thought of my OP, more and more Americans are increasingly informing themselves on what Socialism just is. This is a good thing.

This, obviously, is only logical since the American elites have been squeezing the lemon too hard for way too long. Trop c'est trop, enough is enough!

 

Market socialists? LOL.

It is curious your concepts. Also the concepts of right and left, or their inexistence. And talking about socialist nationalists. That doesn't exist. Socialism, well any leftist position(socialism, communism and anarchism) are internationalist and federalist.

The socialism never can be with elites and less with people with inherited wealth.

 

I can tell you don't read 3rd party literature. Socialism, when it gets power, is always a nationalist movement. Stalin's Russia. Mao's China. Hitler's Germany. True socialism, in its intent, is for the workers. Workers identify with their respective nations. Not the globe. Arguing for worker controlled means of production internationally is spitting in the wind. Owner controlled statism is what you will get. Those with talent, but born with little means, feeling like the ground floor is too socialist. Those with average or sub-par abilities feeling like the ground floor is too capitalist. The top being allowed to make all the gains they can in good times, and being bailed out when things go wrong. If you can't see that is exactly what we have, with nothing to thwart those who dictate rule from making it even worse, I don't know what to do for you. The globalized elite are above ideologies. They are above rules. They are above nations. The only thing higher than the elite are the bankers. Omnipotent are they.

 

You know why a democracy didn't work in ancient Athens? Cause the population got out of control and everyone needs to be informed about what they are voting on. Now, imagine a country at about a population of 320,000,000 people all trying to be informed about what they are voting for, it just is NEVER going to work. Could you possibly be well versed in every peice of legislation that comes to be voted on? Could any of us had time to read the 2,000 page healthcare bill that most lawyers can decipher?

There is nothing about socialism that I like, from what a right winger or left winger has ever told me about it, it all stinks.

You say I am not objective about socialism then say we don't have free-market in the US, only the major corporations control everything. Even if they did, which they don't, I am still not forced to buy anything I don't want like some lefty forcing me to buy health insurance.