“...a Christian society would be what we now call Leftist.”- C.S. Lewis

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Kyklos, Jul 4, 2018.

  1. Kyklos

    Kyklos Active Member Past Donor

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    “...a Christian society would be what we now call Leftist.”- Theologian C.S. Lewis wrote in his book, Mere Christianity, p. 80.

    During the 1970’s the English Christian Theologian C.S. Lewis was becoming very popular with American Protestant Christians. He was educated at Oxford University and later held the position of Professor of Mediaeval and Renaissance Literature at Cambridge. His most popular book was Merely Christianity, (Macmillan Publishing, 1943). Lewis was also a close friend of J.R.R. Tokein and also wrote allegorical science fiction such as the seven novels know as The Chronicles of Narnia, and The Space Trilogy. Those novels were really about imperialism and capitalism. Lewis called himself a Christian, a Humanist rejecting Free Market Ideology being popularized by Friedrich von Hayek at the time.

    Lewis was also a severe critic of British Imperialism. Winston Churchill offered Lewis the prestigious award of “Commander of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire,” but rejected the award for fear it would appear he supported capitalism. Lewis lamented, “We have shouted the name of Christ and enacted the service of Moloch.” Moloch is the pagan god of child sacrifice.

    However, a funny thing happened on the way to the church. Suddenly a new Christian writer and Presbyterian pastor Francis Schaeffer came on to the scene in about 1968. One of his most popular early books was entitled He Is There and He Is Not Silent, (1972). Few people knew at the time Schaeffer was part a right-wing movement—and I mean “Howling at the moon” right-wingers-- that used Schaeffer to infiltrate American Christian Churches. Dr. Schaeffer’s son, Frank Schaeffer, has acted as a whistle-blower of how extremists used his father to push American Christian fundamentalist to the extreme right. Frank Schaeffer has said that his father's influence is responsible for the bombing of abortion clinics campaigns and other acts of violence in America (see video 25 minutes).

    Interestingly, it was in 1971 that the Republican Party lead by Richard Nixon resolved to spread Free Market Fundamentalism throughout American culture. Nixon appointed Lewis Powell to the Supreme Court and he authored the famous “Powell Memorandum” of August 23, 1971 which is a manifesto of corporate activism to educate the public of business’ contributions to society, lobby elected leaders, affect legislation, influence popular media, and to aggressively increase American business’ political power. Only two months after the Powell Memorandum was sent the Education Committee of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, 64 year old Lewis Powell was selected by Richard M. Nixon to fill the Supreme Court seat of retiring Justice Hugo Black.

    Francis Schaeffer was the agent the Republican Party used to corrupt American Christian Churches and they were wildly successful.

    So what does C.S. Lewis’ Christianity look like? It would look like Christian Democratic Socialism:

    CS Lewis Was a Red by Mervyn Nicholson
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2018
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  2. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Donor

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    Trying to shoehorn Jesus into left or right wing ideology won't work.
    People who do this employ the tactic of selective reading of the Gospels.
    He wasn't a man of his time but a man for all generations, whether they
    accept Him or not.
    The bible for instance speaks of helping the poor, but it also speak of
    personal responsibility, industriousness, law abiding, being content with
    your wages etc..
    People are disappointed in the totality of Jesus. But as Genesis stated,
    we have to eat the whole sacrificial lamb, not just the cuts we like.
     
  3. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    <Mod Edit> Kylos took this from left out most of C.S. Lewis' actual quote and context, which is what hacks always do, and Nicholson has obviously not read Lewis.

    Keep in mind that this is the same bunch that thinks "Jesus was a liberal".
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 6, 2018
  4. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    I think the views supposedly supported by Jesus are so far removed from the way we structure our politics today that it's impossible to draw simple lines between them. Comparing Jesus and todays politics can mean everything, anything and nothing.

    That doesn't mean it's useless though. One can with fairly decent accuracy point out the people who only understand their own ideology and don't really grasp the real subtleties of the issues by pointing at those who with confidence exclaims that Jesus supports them in particular.
     
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  5. Kyklos

    Kyklos Active Member Past Donor

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    Remember the The Screwtape Letters by C. S. Lewis? It was dedicated to J.R.R. Tolkien and is about letters written by a senior Demon Screwtape to his nephew Wormwood, a Demon in training. The devil has plenty of advocates today.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2018
  6. rockyreagan

    rockyreagan Well-Known Member

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    LOL. Richard Nixon? Wage and Price Controls Richard Nixon? The last liberal President before the rise of Obama, that Richard Nixon? The man who created the EPA? Said he was an Keynesian, that Richard Nixon? The Fair Labors Standard Act (a law that raised the minimum wage by 40%)Richard Nixon? The creator of OSHA, that Richard Nixon? The man who imposed more economic regulation on the economy in anytime of US history outside of the New Deal, that Richard Nixon? The man who supported a minimum tax on the wealthy, and a universal basic income for all Americans, that Richard Nixon?

    lol Get out of here with this "free market fundamentalism" nonsense. Nixon was the last liberal of the 20th century. You wouldn't see another statist of his like again until Obama won election.
     
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  7. Kyklos

    Kyklos Active Member Past Donor

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    I didn't say Nixon wasn't a double dealing two faced lair and hypocrite that would response to political need to stay in power.

     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2018
  8. rockyreagan

    rockyreagan Well-Known Member

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    Any reading of Nixon, from the books he wrote after he resigned from the White House, to his actions as President, to his actions as a sitting Senator of VP for Ike, in any situation it is impossible to think of the man as a free market fundamentalist. He's essentially Pat Buchanan without the social conservatism on the domestic front.

    The man believed the government had a role in the economic order, and should not only create a safety net, but regulate industry to do what the government wanted it to. It's the reason Noam Chomsky defends Nixon so much now a days, which is ironic considering he was on Nixon's enemy list.

    I do agree that Nixon was an ass, but he wasn't some conservative or libertarian mastermind. He was the last liberal Republican, who had a lot of personality issues do to his working/middle class upbringing and insecurity.
     
  9. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    Bullpucky.
     
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  10. Kyklos

    Kyklos Active Member Past Donor

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    Nixon who was heavily involved with the mafia didn't believe in the free markets just like most of the politicians today don't believe in a free market because such a system is impossible--it's a fake economic theory to gain monopoly power. All attempts to create a free market have failed miserably. So how could a so-called free market direct itself?
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2018
  11. Kyklos

    Kyklos Active Member Past Donor

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    Well, read the allegory more carefully without ideological prejudice:
     
  12. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    What you mean, obviously, is that I should read it through the lens of your ideological prejudice.
     
  13. Kyklos

    Kyklos Active Member Past Donor

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    You mean C.S. Lewis' ideological lens. But if you insist, present your interpretation of C.S. Lewis' story, "The Last Battle." We are eager students and ready to learn.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
  14. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    precisely what I said, obviously.
    Oh sure, that's why you quoted some leftard's spin on Lewis rather than Lewis himself.
    Wow. You really think I'm stupid. :smile:
     
  15. Kyklos

    Kyklos Active Member Past Donor

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    And so far you are not disappointing me. Stopped the ad hominens and give us your spin! How would you read Lewis' "The Last Battle?" And what about his positions on social behavior in Mere Christianity?
    We are only hearing that you disagree, but no substantive commentary of his work. So let's hear it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
  16. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    Couldn't tell you offhand, as I only read the Narnia series once, decades ago; but had your characterization been anything like accurate, I'd have picked up on it at the time. The trilogy I read probably half a dozen times.
    I never said anything about that.
    Anyone who seriously contends that The Chronicles of Narnia and The Space Trilogy were stealth polemics against imperialism and capitalism is soulless. You're welcome.
     
  17. Kyklos

    Kyklos Active Member Past Donor

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    And that is why I am asking about C.S. Lewis' comments about social behavior--it is a permissible topic to discuss.

    Lewis wrote that in a Christian society "We should feel that its economic life was very socialistic and, in that sense,"advanced,"..."
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
  18. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    I haven't read it. I'd prefer if you made your arguments directly.
     
  19. Kyklos

    Kyklos Active Member Past Donor

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    I am not making an argument about the Screwtape Letters, none is needed, but just noting your avatar reads "Devil's Advocate." The Demon, Woodworm, is literally the "Devil's Advocate" in the book and advises his nephew, Screwtape, on how to prevent people from converting to Christianity and attacks other theological beliefs. Here is a good summary of the entire novel, "The Screwtape Letters."
     
  20. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Frankly...... .you really could have a good point here.
    Former Atheist Howard Storm Ph. D. was shown the economy of
    America in the year 2185 and it sure does seem different than what we are
    doing now!

    https://www.near-death.com/experiences/notable/howard-storm.html#a04
     
  21. Kyklos

    Kyklos Active Member Past Donor

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    Socialism is a Christian heresy, and not a non-Christian heresy. Christian socialism is derived from the Christian Messianic message which has been suppressed in modern theology. Leftists are sometimes referred to as "bleeding heart" liberals. There is some truth to that for the bleeding heart is that of Christ's after his side was pierced by a soldier's spear.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2018
  22. Kyklos

    Kyklos Active Member Past Donor

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    A relevant quote:
    Here is an article on the history of Moloch and commentary on today's pandemic effect on the economy. Christian philosopher C.S. Lewis made this same comparison during his lifetime. Capitalism is demanding sacrifice.
    ‘Restart the Economy’ is a prayer to a conservative god who demands human sacrifice
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
  23. David Landbrecht

    David Landbrecht Newly Registered

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    Jesus emphasized personal responsibility.
    Jesus emphasized unselfish sharing.
    There is no categorizing Jesus by the destroyed terms that pass for discussion of "right", "left", etc.
     
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  24. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    The Bible is a collection of Jewish philosophy. You can adopt all or some of it as your own but it sure as hell did not come from any God.
     
  25. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    The Jesus character was a free-loading sponger who lived off of his rich friends. He never gave anyone anything and when he had the opportunity to do so, he said no because he felt that he needed it more than the poor people.
     

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