4 U.S. Weapons of War That Need to Be Retired Now

That is just people in general, and not a sign of intelligence.

30+ years ago when I first worked in retail, I learned how to "count back change". We did not have computers to do it for us, so that was how everybody did it. Bank tellers also counted our money for us, it was always done by hand so the customer could clearly see.

Then when I worked retail again 20 years ago, this was already a vanishing art. When I was at training to work sales at a major theme park, I was surprised that this was not part of the program. And the instructor was surprised when I automatically did this when returning change. However, we were all instructed to as a minimum say aloud how much they were giving us, and how much their change was.

To this day, I can't remember the last time I had this done (or even been told the change returned). Now they just dump it in your hand and move on with their business. And what I find even more annoying is say for a charge of $4.61 I will give them $5.11, and they look at me like I am stupid. I have even had them push the 11 cents back, then give me 39 cents in change, so I now have even more coins in my pocket then before.

But this is really just sheer laziness, not a sign of lowered intelligence. Like the clutch in a car, counting back change is pretty much a lost art today.

 

Not questioning anyones intelligence but some people's lack off knowledge.

 

>" The fiscal 2016 future years defense program (FYDP) slated to be released on Feb. 2 "reverses the decline in defense spending over the past five years and works to address the under-investment in new weapons by making targeted investments in those areas we deem to be the highest priority," Deputy Defense Secretary Bob Work said.

Earlier in the day, Pentagon acquisition chief Frank Kendall told a Senate panel that there is money in the next budget for the Air Force to begin work on its 6th generation fighter

"It will be a program that will be initially led by DARPA," Kendall said, "but it will involve the Navy and the Air Force as well. And the intent is to develop prototypes for the next generation of air dominance platforms, X-Plane programs, if you will."..."<

continue -> http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...ixth-generation-fighter-2016-budget/22477329/

 

If they are going to make a prototype in 2016 then the plans for the new aircraft probably took shape as soon as it was realized the airframe shaping of the F35 was one massive stuff-up for the US airforce & navy just to get harrier type aircraft (short take off & vertical landing) for the marines.

If the new fighter is to have an airframe properly shaped for the air superiority role, existing F-35 & F-22 internals plus new radar & upgraded F-22 engines & a 6th generation tag slapped on to justify the cost then it should be doable a lot faster than the F-35.

 

I am having difficulty finding the information I am looking for.

The information I am looking for details actual SAMPLES of such bombs but until I find it this is all I could find so far.

I will not bother going on about how I personally know that such Bombs existed as unless I have proof my statement can only be chalked up to opinion....but I would like you to consider that I am not a member who purposely posts falsehoods so bear with me....I will find what I am looking for eventually as the data I know exists is not available on the internet.

AboveAlpha

 

Since the pilot of an Su-35 would not even know they were being targeted by an F-35 until they were going down in flames....as the Stealth Capabilities of an F-35 does not allow the pilot of an Su-35 even know they are being targeted until it is too late....Destroyers statements are not reasonable.

AboveAlpha

 

The reason the F-22 will not be built in large numbers...besides their cost....is because the U.S. Air Force is developing Robotic Self Autonomous Fighter/Attack Aircraft.

These Robotic U.S. Aircraft are capable of flying faster with much greater manuverability, carry more weapons and able to stay and fly on station for over 24 Hours....because such Robotic Aircraft do not have to sacrifice a large percentage of such a craft to be used to keep a Pilot alive.

AboveAlpha

 

I am aware of that, and do not think I am some kind of "Soviet Apologist".

But in all the years of propaganda during and after the war, there has never been one actual shred of evidence that this ever happened. No more then there were that the US military did this in Vietnam, or that insurgents in Iraq and that Israel did it. Even though these claims have gone on for decades.

Remember, my only interest is in accuracy and the truth, not politics.

 

The reason why no more F-22's will ever be built is because of Obama.

When Obama killed the F-22 in 2009, Lockheed Martin closed it's F-22 production facilities but put the assembly line, tools, dies, etc. in storage waiting to see if Obama would be reelected in 2012. It cost millions of dollars to do so. After America went stupid in 2012 and reelected a national security risk for a second time, Lockheed Martin disposed of the F-22 assembly line for good. There never will be another F-22 rolling off the assembly line.

You may remember the B-1 bomber that the Democrats and the Carter administration killed during the 1970's. When the libs killed the B-1, North American Rockwell put the assembly line in storage in Palmdale and waited to see if the American people would wake up in 1980. In 1980 Ronald Reagan was elected and gave America a second chance and with the help from Rep. ("B-1 Bob Dornan") the B-1B started rolling off the assembly line.

 

Remember, stealth does not mean invisible.

And the moment that the Su got the warning tone of a RADAR seeking missile, or if their RADAR picked up a heat seeking missile, they would know they are under attack. The aircraft may be "invisible" to RADAR, that does not mean their weapons are. And if they are in front, Air to Air missiles have a very visible trail.

 

You misunderstood. In 2016, may be (or may not be) provided funding for the development. The prototype will be built (or not be) in 2020 - 2030 -2040 and so on. No one knows when will be built prototype. All the talk about the 6 generation - chatter and propaganda.

 

I remember seeing those pictures, but don't recall the source, either. I'm sure you're posting honestly about that stuff. You might try the video archives of some of the internationl media networks, if they exist and are open for free to the public. If you have access to JSTOR and IRIS and other online academic archives, they may be there. I lost my access when I retired.

 

Well there are many things that President Obama has done I don't agre with but cancelling production of the F-22 is something that WAS A GOOD THING.

Lockheed, Boeing and Gruman all have Gen 6 and Gen 7 Robotic Self Autonomous Fighter/Attack Aircraft Designs and Prototypes and not only are such aircraft MUCH CHEAPER....they are also Stealth and MORE CAPABLE IN THE EXTREME compared to the F-22.

Without the extra weight needed in such aircraft to support a Human Pilot....Robotic Aircraft are faster, more manuverable, cheaper, capable of carrying more bombs and missiles, capable of carrying a greater ratio of fuel to propulsion and capable of staying aloft and on station to scan for Targets of Oppertunity for 24 hours or longer.

AboveAlpha

 

The F-22's engine and exhaust design allows it to have a very small IR-Light Signature.

The F-35 as well but not to the same extent as the F-22.

As far as the Su-35 being capable of shooting down an F-22 Raptor....almost Zero%.

Shooting down a F-35....a bit higher probability but not enough for anyone flying an F-35 to really worry about.

The new AARAM's that are being supplied to the F-35 are beyond fast and capable of locking in, tracking and following both Radar and IR-Light Signatures to target.

If you are in an Su-35 and you detect one of these heading toward you....it's too late.

AboveAlpha

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I have a source that it was once on but I can't find it anymore.

I have personal experience in this particular issue.

AboveAlpha

 

Remember, stealth is not invisible.

That is something I repeat over and over in all of these discussions. The idea of stealth is not to make an invisible plane, that is in the realm of Wonder Woman, not the United States. The idea is to reduce the signature so that it is difficult to shoot down, not to make it vanish.

Use a powerful enough RADAR, and stealth means little. Even with PATRIOT we have tracked F-117s, F-22s and B-2s. The Navy's AEGIS has the same capabilities, it is just that the aircraft has to be damned close to us in order for us to get enough of a lock on them to fire a shot, to where we are within the range of their weapons. It largely removes the stand-off capabilities of the systems, making it more or less like a duel at 15 feet with shotguns.

We know that Iraq tracked our F-117s in the Gulf War, and the Serbs were able to do the same thing in former Yugoslavia. They simply did not have enough of a feed to fire accurately at them so in all the conflicts they were used in only 1 was ever shot down. All of the advances placed into the F-22 and F-35 still do not make them invulnerable to RADAR and heat seeking missiles, only makes them a more difficult target.

After all, if they were immune to such threats, why do they still have flare and chaff dispensers? Simply because they know they are not immune. And the US itself is working on new combat systems to help eliminate the threat of this used against us.

One of the newest systems being worked on (and already deployed in a limited capability) is in networking our various systems together. "Stealth Fighters" primarily are intended to operate the way they do because the RADAR systems on board fighters is greatly reduced from those of ground based or naval RADARS, or even those in AWACs. So we are starting to create systems (inspired by none of the then Tom Clancey 20 years ago) to allow a fighter to target another aircraft based upon the RADAR return from an AWAC or AEGIS system.

And there is yet another way to go after them, HARM. The F-117 was unique in that it was probably the only modern combat aircraft built in the last 50 years that did not have a RADAR system. The F-35 and F-22 do have RADAR systems, which then not only destroys almost all of the stealth characteristics, it also provides a way to attack the aircraft.

And sorry, the idea of "autonomous robot fighters" is just science fiction, it is not reality. But let me know when Skynet comes online or we finally develop Cylons. Until then, I expect to see such things in another 20-30 years. And ask me in another 20-30 years and I will say the same thing, in another 20-30 years.

 

The Northrup Gruman X-47B is a Self Autonomous Robotic Aircraft which the U.S. Navy successfully landed on the deck of the Nuclear Nimitz Class Carrier USS George H.W. Bush back in 2013.

The X-47B is just one of the first in a long list of new Self Autonomous Aircraft being developed for the U.S. Military and they certainly are NOT Science Fiction.

You are correct about Stealth as such aircraft are not completely invisable to Radar and as well can be detected by IR-Light sensors and a few other means but the F-117 that Serbs were able to shoot down during the war in the former Yugoslavia was not shot down because the Serbs were able to use standard Radar techniques to target it and shoot it down and even using their radars as they did it was by sheer LUCK they were able to down the F-117.

What happened and why that F-117 was shot down was an event caused by the STUPIDITY of allowing European NATO Leadership to partially dictate U.S. Naval and Air Force Bombing runs.

An example of this was NATO having the F-117 run multiple bombing missions at below 15,000 feet which is an altitude far below standard F-117 operating procedure. Such a low bombing altitude does not give the F-117 pilots hardly any time to respond to surface to air missile fire.


What happened was Serbian spotters, perhaps starting with spies in Italy watching the F-117's take off, were able to determine a rough schedule of how long it took the planes to cross the Adriatic, and how long to fly to Belgrade.

Knowing those things, Serbian radar operators would have a better sense of when and where to watch. Once the aircraft's radar reflection crossed their screens, they would alert the operator down the line. The downed F-117 had already dropped at least one of its laser-guided, 2,000-pound bombs near Belgrade before it was hit, so that was another clue.

It would seem that Serbian gunners were able to integrate this net of far-flung radars to feed the location of the plane to a missile launcher, or to cue up the SA-3's own radar so the operator had only to briefly flip it on to track and fire.

Since the stealth plane went down, other planes on bombing runs have recorded instances when the Serbian forces lobbed surface-to-air missiles at them without radar guidance. This is clearly less reliable, but it lets the Serbian missile sites avoid counterstrikes by NATO's fighters.

If the F-117 had operated and run bombing missions at the much higher altitudes they usually run such missions at and if NATO European Leadership had not demanded that certain Serbian Targets be attacked by the F-117 repeadedly this would never have happened and again it was just dumb luck it happened anyways.

AboveAlpha

 

The SU-35 has infrared search & track, once a ground based L-band radar tells the SU-35 approximately where the F-35 is it can track & ultimately kill the F-35 at least in theory.

Freddy.

 

The US already has robotic drones that fire missiles, the main problem with drones being used for air combat is the delay between sending sensor information to the remote pilot on the ground in the US or some other safe country & getting back instructions.

A Robotic Self Autonomous Fighter/Attack Aircraft cannot be truely autonomous & a robot at the same time, Think android, requires to some degree an artificial brain.

 

Not sure how is Putin relevant to defeats of your supposengly undefitable army, but initiating and supporting an armed coup in Ukraine by United States shows otherwise.

That is right, kiddo. Run away, you have some CoD to play in your mom's basement

perhaps she will even allow you to take Mushroom with you.

I admit, that it was a generalisation and it is not entirely true on every occasion. Nevertheless, average time, required for person's education to fit at the certain role. As an example, pre WW-2 pilots were trained for about a year before they were allowed to serve in their regreements, during WW2 pilots could be trained for merely 3 months by a shortened program and then were send to a frontline. Nowadays it takes 3 years before a cadet is allowed to fly a training airctaft and additionaly 2 years before cadet is allowed to fly a combat aircraft.


But mostly I was reffering to manufacturing things.
With all resources avaliable, manufacturing of a tank during WW2 required from 5 to 30 days. Nowadays technological process requires about 9 months to complete one.
Essex class AC reuired 1,5 years to be produced and adopted into service. Midway class AC required 2 years for completion. Gerald R. Ford class is going to take 6 years.


So, unless you are going to fight another Hundred Years' War, losing a significant part of military equipment by both sides is likely to cause a stalemate.

 

Sounds about right re: flight training.

My son is a naval Aviator in the Marine Corps flying a FA-18 C.

When he first showed up at Pensacola NAS there was prefight screening and within a month or so he was flying small Cessna 172's with a civilian instructor. From there it was basic flight training in Navy turbo prop T-34's then advance flight training in the T-45 jet trainers. Pensacola NAS then Meridian NAS. I think it was well over three or four years before he reported to the fleet at MCAS Miramar for his transition training to the FA-18, VMFAT 101.

Again another two years or more with this training squadron before being assigned to a real combat deployable FA-18 squadron.



Re: the the Nimitz class carriers, it more like ten years from the time the keel is laid to when the carrier actually enters the fleet. After a carrier is launched there are another few more years of outfitting, shake down cruises and working out the bugs before the ship actually enters the fleet.

I'm old schooled so I don't follow the concept if it's new it must be better like so many of the younger generation believe in. Today it's "If it works, it must be obsolete."

I spent almost 13 months "in-country" as a NGF spotter with ANGLICO Sub Unit One. From low intensity to high intensity combat. Know something about talking an aircraft in on a close air support mission and my expertise was conducting naval shore support fire missions from 16" BB's, 8" and 6" gun cruisers and 5"/38 and 5"/54 gun destroyers.

On some weekends I'm surrounded with Marine officers who have done combat tours in Iraq and Afghanistan and sometimes I pull out some old 8mm footage of the ONTOS doing it's thing in Vietnam. The ONTOS was the hero at the battle of Hue during Tet of 68.
http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/m50-ontos-the-forgotten-tank-killer/
In 1969 some REMF's back in Washington noticed that the ONTOS was dumb, stupid and it worked so they decided it was obsolete.

The two comments I mostly hear from combat experienced Marine officers who served in Iraq and or Afghanistan after viewing the film, "I wish we had them during the battle of Fallujah, or had them in Iraq or had them in Afghanistan." Or you hear, "every time the U.S. military gets something that actually works, they say it's obsolete."

 

In theory perhaps....but it always comes down to a Pilots skill and U.S. Pilots are without a doubt the best trained and most experienced Pilots in the world.

AboveAlpha

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In Self Autonomous mode such Robot Craft carry out their mission on their own without communication.

AboveAlpha

 

Hey look who's back... I see the troll is still alive.

 

His translation software leaves much to be desired.

AboveAlpha

 

He isn't even Russian. Just another playing Russian on this forum to troll and bash the west. Probably a sock from the uk. We have plenty of those around here lately.